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Has anyone seen a better time of birth for this person?

 
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 837

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:15 pm    Post subject: Has anyone seen a better time of birth for this person? Reply with quote

I was listening to one of Ian McCulloch's (Echo and the Bunnymen lead singer) old albums and wondered where his amazing talent came from. One of his lyrics is "born under Mars with Jupiter rising, fallen from stars that lit my horizon", so I put Jupiter, in Scorpio whose old rulership was Mars, exactly rising. His lyrics are full of old seafaring imagery.

I think his talent is about Mars which makes aspects with Neptune, Jupiter, Ascendant, Chiron and the Moons Nodes, some just by transference of light between planets and points that aspect each other. The Moons Nodes aspecting his Ascendant would give fame, and transiting Pluto in the beginning of Scorpio in the early 1980's would activate his Ascendant and Jupiter's antiscia, Chiron, etc. Actually, if his Moons Nodes aspect his Ascendant, then his Ascendant is Closed, and the transit of Pluto to its antiscion in the early 1980's was accompanied by Uranus, so maybe the transit was Closed, thus benefitting anyone with an aspecting part of their chart that was also Closed.

Mars' effect is totally different from Venus, and often expresses itself as great talent in music or art. I don't tend to see Venus as positive, whereas Mars usually is, though I have seen striking exceptions.

I puzzled over the Venus opposition Saturn's antiscion and square IsisTranspluto, also 22.5 degrees to Pluto, which if this chart is correct also aspects his Midheaven, so would be expressed through his career.

Transiting Neptune was up to 22 degrees Sagittarius 40 minutes in March 1980, triggered by Saturn in 23 degrees Virgo, also transited by Jupiter, so with the Closed Neptune to a Closed Midheaven, Venus, Saturn, Pluto, and IsisTranspluto. Something very beyond ordinary mortals, Gods will be Gods.

As his Venus, Saturn, Midheaven, and Pluto natally aspect IsisTranspluto, that means that a pattern that needs to be Closed is Opened from birth, and also with the paired transit when IsisTranspluto was at its antiscion point in 21 degrees Leo, within one degree orb from 1984 but activated from the mid 1980's, which might have been unfavourable to this pattern around his career (Midheaven). The second pair of transits of IsisTranspluto from a few years ago, around 2014, may have been more favourable for this pattern, as the second pair is the opposite of the first pair, and would have been Closing a Closed pattern. That Neptune acting alone transit in 1980 and 1981 was Closed.

He is obviously a very intelligent person, and his Mercury aspects Uranus (22.5 degree aspect).

It has to be the chart angles that give his voice such power, and other than his own lyrics, nobody knows his time of birth.




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Mark
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:
Quote:
Mars' effect is totally different from Venus, and often expresses itself as great talent in music or art. I don't tend to see Venus as positive, whereas Mars usually is, though I have seen striking exceptions.


There are clearly more martial types of music and instruments. However, I recently, helped a friend prepare a talk on female singer-song writers. It was striking how many had a close Venus-Moon aspectual connection as the chart above indeed does.

Incidentally, if I understand you correctly you rectified this chart purely based on the lyrics of one song? Who knows he might be referring to his chart if he knows it. But I would suggest its rather unsafe to start delineating angles of the chart on that basis unless you have done a lot of work to verify your chosen time.

btw you keep referring to the term 'closed'. What do you mean by that?

Mark
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:


There are clearly more martial types of music and instruments. However, I recently, helped a friend prepare a talk on female singer-song writers. It was striking how many had a close Venus-Moon aspectual connection as the chart above indeed does.

Mark


Yes Ian's chart has a close Venus Moon sextile, and I see these soft aspects as operating on a completely different level from the conjunctions, squares, oppositions and their antiscia. It seems to give a sort of background effect but doesn't enter into the dynamics of what is happening. His Moon doesn't make any hard aspects, and I regard the conjunction with Mercury as too wide to count.
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SparkLive



Joined: 28 May 2020
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This forum has amazing discussions... [Link deleted]
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Michael Sternbach
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moderator notice

SparkLive wrote:
This forum has amazing discussions... [Link deleted]


I certainly agree!

However, just dropping a link to a commercial website is not exactly conducive to the latter, is it? Leery

Therefore, would you please refrain from that kind of behaviour in the future.

Michael

Your friendly moderator Smile
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james_m



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Posted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

see fadis posts for more of the same...
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Michael Sternbach
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
see fadis posts for more of the same...


Thank you for the hint, James!

There's a new sheriff in town and offenders will from now on be dealt with as they are caught in the act!

Very Happy
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Mark
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Sternbach wrote:
Quote:
There's a new sheriff in town and offenders will from now on be dealt with as they are caught in the act!


Go get em Michael! Laughing
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map



Joined: 23 Nov 2013
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Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 5:51 am    Post subject: Chart Reply with quote

IMO, libra ascendant seems to fit. There is an exchange between Moon and Mars.
Moon with Mercury aspect ascendant. North node too in ascendant.
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map



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Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Chart Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:
I think his talent is about Mars which makes aspects with Neptune, Jupiter, Ascendant, Chiron and the Moons Nodes, some just by transference of light between planets and points that aspect each other.


Mars i think does not aspect scorpio ascendant and jupiter.
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Fleur



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Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: Chart Reply with quote

map wrote:
Fleur wrote:
I think his talent is about Mars which makes aspects with Neptune, Jupiter, Ascendant, Chiron and the Moons Nodes, some just by transference of light between planets and points that aspect each other.


Mars i think does not aspect scorpio ascendant and jupiter.


Mars aspects Jupiter 135 degrees sesquiquadrate (a square and a half) within one degree, and Jupiter is conjunct the Ascendant. A sesquiqadrate is actually a strong aspect so Mars sesquiquadrate Ascendant within a two degree orb is also acceptable, and more so as part of a pattern of other planets with even closer aspects.

That is assuming Ian's words "born under Mars with Jupiter rising" are not just poetic licence, and the Ascendant could actually be closer to 29.5 degrees Scorpio, which would give an exact sesquiquadrate 135 degrees to Mars in 14.5 degrees Cancer.

Whatever the exact birth time, Mars is still exactly, within one degree, sesquiquadrate, 135 degrees, to Jupiter.
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Michael Sternbach
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Posted: Sat May 30, 2020 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Michael Sternbach wrote:
Quote:
There's a new sheriff in town and offenders will from now on be dealt with as they are caught in the act!


Go get em Michael! Laughing


You can count on that, Mark.

Call me Judge Thread!

Laughing
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