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The Signifier of Father
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linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 179

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:17 am    Post subject: The Signifier of Father Reply with quote

Used :

1-Sidereal zodiac (Krishnamurti Ayanamsa), Mean Node.
23°45'56" for Year 2000. Speed of precession is 50.2388475.

2-Progressions Keys :
Tertiary I: 1 sidereal day = sidereal month
Tertiary II (Minor) : 1 sidereal month = 1 sidereal year
Secondary Progression : 1 sidereal day = 1 sidereal year

3- Harmonic 16,64 and 256
4-Zet Astrology Software

Zet Settings :
a sidereal day (23h 56m 4.091s)
a sidereal month (27d 7h 43m 11.47s)
a sidereal year (365d 6h 9m 9.5s


https://ia801504.us.archive.org/6/items/thesignifieroffather/The%20Signifier%20of%20Father.pdf
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quoting from the treatise by Cemal Cicek referenced above:
Quote:
In astrology there are many claims that are not true. It applies to both Western and Indian astrology. In order to control these claims, we need the right tools,. By right tools I mean the right astrological techniques and astrological software.

Without harmonics it is impossible to control many claims. Without harmonics, you will not realize that astrology is an exact science. You can continue to look at 360° horoscopes for all eternity, you will miss many things and you will invariably speculate.

I know this is true. Often astrologers believe they are knowledgeable and wise, seeing in the birth chart personality secrets of individuals that others don’t see. But a lifetime of astrological study has taught me that Neptune really is the planet of today’s astrologers. (Neptune is the only planet that has given concrete research results for astrologers.)

Using western astrological systems, harmonics might be the only way to zero in on the hidden truths of astrology. India has other ways of looking at the finer points of birth charts. Are these ways valid? I don’t know as (now in my elder years) I’m running out of time and energy to investigate these micro systems.

Quote:
The significator of father is Jupiter. Whether the person is born day or night, it makes no difference.

This would accurately reflect western mythology of Jupiter (Zeus) as the father of gods and mankind. This also reflects the Indian concept of the 9th house (natural house of Jupiter-ruled Sagittarius) as the house of the father.

Here we have the foundation of an entire university research course on only one topic. There are hundreds of similar questions on astrological basics. Are there valid ways to check this claim if the astrologer doesn’t have the software to properly investigate harmonics? As I’ve said before, Cemal, you are decades ahead of our times. Let’s hope it’s not centuries!
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
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Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Therese,

thank you very much for your comment and kind words.

With vedic astrology I see two major problems that need to be solved before accurate research can be done.

First problem would be exact Ayanamsa.
Of course we have Krishnamurti Ayanamsa, but we do not know if it is exact to the second or not.

Second problem is Nakshatras.
We need to find out with 100% certainty whether there are 27 or 28 Nakshatras.
In solving these problems, we need astrology software that is able to do such research.
With the existing software many problems in astrology cannot be solved.

I have been asking two software developers for a year to perform one or two small changes in their software to better and faster do research in harmonics, and so far nothing has happened.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi wrote:
Quote:
With Vedic astrology I see two major problems that need to be solved before accurate research can be done.

First problem would be exact Ayanamsa. Of course we have Krishnamurti Ayanamsa, but we do not know if it is exact to the second or not.

For any research we have to begin somewhere, preferably with a hypothesis, which may turn out to be either true or false. I don’t think we can expect to-the-second accuracy at the beginning of research. That would come later as research progressed.

Ayanamsa: I would start with the hypothesis that the Krishnamurti ayanamsa is valid based on K.S. Krishnamurti’s meticulous work with timing events, and the research work of yourself, Cemal, Richard Houck, and a few research oriented astrologers such as Martin Gansten and myself. There are also a number of Indian astrologers who have found the Krishnamurti ayanamsa to be the most accurate for timing events when comparing timing with the popular government Lahiri value. As research progresses, it would become apparent if the Krishnamurti ayanamsa has to be modified. But already we would be into micro values.

Quote:
Second problem is Nakshatras. We need to find out with 100% certainty whether there are 27 or 28 Nakshatras.

28 Nakshatras or 27 Lunar Mansions?
Radhe’s The Divine Forces of the Lunar Nakshatras (Shree Ganapati Productions, 2015) is by far the most scholarly and best researched text we have on the nakshatras. On page 179 she writes:

"This list of the Nakshatras differs from the certainly older list given in the Taittriya-Samhita (TS. 4.4.10.1-3) by the fact that it contains 28 Nakshatras instead of 27, Abhijit having been inserted between the Second Asadhas and Srona."

This is the only statement I’ve seen that suggests that the 27 nakshatra division is older than the 28 division. The ancient Indian nakshatras were not equal divisions of the ecliptic as the current 27 lunar mansions are. These were brought into synch with the 12 sign zodiac after it arrived in India. So the ancient nakshatras (whether 27 or 28...) have transitioned into a 27-fold equal division lunar zodiac, each division being 13 degree 20 minutes in size. Did this lunar zodiac always exist, but was never recognized as such?? We have no way of knowing the answer to this question.

But this lunar zodiac has certainly captured the imagination of Neptunian minded astrologers as books on this lunar “nakshatra” zodiac have mushroomed in recent years with little or no foundation in ancient texts. So for any research that is related to the lunar zodiac, I’d begin with a hypothesis such as: “The equal 27-fold lunar zodiac is a valid entity which can be demonstrated to exist.”

Quote:
In solving these problems, we need astrology software that is able to do such research. With the existing software many problems in astrology cannot be solved.

This is true, but surely we can make some beginning research inroads using a wider calculation net?

At present I believe that the only research that might give us concrete results should relate to the meticulous timing of events. But then there is Cemal’s very careful work with harmonics that isolates patterns for homosexuality, infant mortality and serious medical conditions such as Alzheimer’s disease.

I don’t know if there is any other way these conditions might be seen astrologically, and they aren’t related to specific timing of events. Surely some kind of micro zodiac division or micro calculation is necessary. (I would suggest that astrologers begin experimenting with the planets Cemal has isolated in these studies.)

But for group astrological research I’d begin with the timing of events as compared to natal charts. Did I say “group?” Research results in other fields demands group endeavor and co-operation, which astrologers have so far not shown is within their capability. Thus we have hundreds of astrological texts produced by individuals, and only a handful of research results which are mostly unverified.

But really, maybe I’m just talking a lot of hot air because I no longer have the time and mental capability or memory for detailed astrological research.
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linchi



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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:


For any research we have to begin somewhere, preferably with a hypothesis, which may turn out to be either true or false. I don’t think we can expect to-the-second accuracy at the beginning of research. That would come later as research progressed.


It is of course true that we have to start somewhere, and it could also be that our initial hypothesis proved to be wrong.We must be prepared for anything.


Quote:
There are also a number of Indian astrologers who have found the Krishnamurti ayanamsa to be the most accurate for timing events when comparing timing with the popular government Lahiri value. As research progresses, it would become apparent if the Krishnamurti ayanamsa has to be modified. But already we would be into micro values.


Because we will be dealing with the Ayanamsa at the micro level, we need to be sure that the Nakshatras that we use are correct because Nakshatra Dasa Systems for example Vimshottari Dasa depends on to Nakshatra and Nakshatra lords.Supposed that the Vimshottari system and rulers are correct.If they are also not correct, then we have a lot to do.



Quote:
I’d begin with a hypothesis such as: “The equal 27-fold lunar zodiac is a valid entity which can be demonstrated to exist.”


I wouldn't take it that way, I would compare both if I had the necessary software, but there is no such software yet.



Quote:
I don’t know if there is any other way these conditions might be seen astrologically, and they aren’t related to specific timing of events. Surely some kind of micro zodiac division or micro calculation is necessary. (I would suggest that astrologers begin experimenting with the planets Cemal has isolated in these studies.)


You can of course predict through progressive lunar phases, solar and lunar with at least one month,if you know the planetary pictures.


Quote:
But for group astrological research I’d begin with the timing of events as compared to natal charts. Did I say “group?” Research results in other fields demands group endeavor and co-operation, which astrologers have so far not shown is within their capability. Thus we have hundreds of astrological texts produced by individuals, and only a handful of research results which are mostly unverified.


I do not think that group work in astrology communuty would be possible in this time.

Quote:
But really, maybe I’m just talking a lot of hot air because I no longer have the time and mental capability or memory for detailed astrological research.


But i hope that you will write more often, so that we can learn from your wisdom and experience.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi wrote:
Quote:
Because we will be dealing with the Ayanamsa at the micro level, we need to be sure that the Nakshatras that we use are correct because Nakshatra Dasa Systems for example Vimshottari Dasa depends on to Nakshatra and Nakshatra lords.Supposed that the Vimshottari system and rulers are correct. If they are also not correct, then we have a lot to do.

The only Dasa system that has received timing research is Vimshottari Dasa. Where did the dasa planetary lords come from?? As is true of much of India’s astrology we simply don’t know. How can these be checked? The only research that looks at these planets belongs to K. S. Krishnamurti (and more recently S.P. Khullar’s Kalamsa and Cuspal Interlinks Theory). This is the only micro research I’ve ever seen coming out of India, and the only type of research that can rival even in a small way harmonics research.

In other words, for a long, long time we can ignore India’s other dasa systems, which very few astrologers even consider. Yes, I’ve had some very interesting research results looking into the Krishnamurti/Khullar theories, and this research can be taken down to the micro level, and does use the currently assigned nakshatra lords for the specific timing of events.

Quote:
Therese wrote:
I’d begin with a hypothesis such as: “The equal 27-fold lunar zodiac is a valid entity which can be demonstrated to exist.”

Linchi wrote:
I wouldn't take it that way, I would compare both if I had the necessary software, but there is no such software yet.

How would you even begin to compare these two nakshatra systems even if the software was available? The fact is that if we’re staying with the historical use of the sidereal zodiac (which means India and the East), there aren’t any 28 nakshatras that can be measured. Al Biruni is the very best source we have on India’s astrological use of the nakshatras, and he writes that he never found anyone in India who could recognize the stars of the nakshatras. He also writes that the Indian lunar stations were of unequal length as their making stars are at various distances from each other. (There is on-going debate about which stars mark each of the mansions as they aren't mentioned in ancient texts.)

The equal 28 lunar stations came into being during the medieval Arabic period when Persian astrology was becoming wholly tropical. So the equal 28 division of lunar mansions is used only in the tropical zodiac and was never used in India for astrology.

Quote:
Therese wrote:
I don’t know if there is any other way these conditions might be seen astrologically, and they aren’t related to specific timing of events. Surely some kind of micro zodiac division or micro calculation is necessary. (I would suggest that astrologers begin experimenting with the planets Cemal has isolated in these studies.)

Linchi wrote:
You can of course predict through progressive lunar phases, solar and lunar with at least one month, if you know the planetary pictures.

Yes, this is the great value of your research. but I was also thinking of precise to-the-minute timing of transits to the relevant natal charts for specific events. (This would also involve the relevant varga chart degrees placed in the natal chart.)

Quote:
I do not think that group work in astrology community would be possible in this time.

Amen to that! And if no one replicates or tests research that has already been done for peer review....well, that leaves us basically nowhere except that the research goes into the literature archive to be read and pondered over by interested astrologers. But I do think that astrologers should seriously consider the specific planets you have isolated in your research, and test them in various ways with both new and old data. (I've started to do this myself. For example, I have two siblings younger than myself who suffer from Alzheimer's disease.)

Quote:
But I hope that you will write more often, so that we can learn from your wisdom and experience.

I’ll agree that I have many years of experience, but perhaps any “wisdom” is channeled from somewhere else because I can read something I supposedly wrote only last year, and I have no memory of writing it! (Perhaps due to daily meditation and on-going mantra I've mostly lost a connection to the physical plane. I often feel that this is the case.)

P.S. Now I'm going to take time to study your research on Jupiter-Father and Alzheimer's to be sure I fully understand what you are doing. (My memory lapses are no help in remembering what I might have read only a few days ago.)
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linchi



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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:

The only Dasa system that has received timing research is Vimshottari Dasa. Where did the dasa planetary lords come from?? As is true of much of India’s astrology we simply don’t know. How can these be checked? The only research that looks at these planets belongs to K. S. Krishnamurti (and more recently S.P. Khullar’s Kalamsa and Cuspal Interlinks Theory). This is the only micro research I’ve ever seen coming out of India, and the only type of research that can rival even in a small way harmonics research.


It is true , and who has decided that these rulers are right ?
There are so many assertions, that are almost not checked but accepted.
Why are 28 nakshatras in Ashtottari Dasa but in Vimshottari Dasa 27 ?
Why are 8 planets used in Ashtottari Dasa (without Ketu) but 9 planets (including Ketu) in Vimshattori Dasa ?

Many questions but no plausible answers.
Krishnamurti system is based on Placidus house system and it is also controversial whether Placidus system is correct.
For the Krishnamurti system because of sub-sub or sub-sub-sub division must be the birth time very accurate.
Because the birth times are not exact, the birth times may be corrected according to the Krishnamurti system so that everything fits.I mean, you have to be very careful.


Quote:
How would you even begin to compare these two nakshatra systems even if the software was available?


I'd look out for progressed planets in the events, whether corresponding planets for the event operate on Nakshatra borders,because in two different nakshatra system also the borders are different.

Let's say father got sick in one day.
I would look to see if Jupiter had on that day entered into new Nakshatra, and if so, which Nakshatra system ?
It could also be other people in the family.Then one would have to watch out that planet for which the person is responsible.

The important thing is to start researching.
It could be ,that during the research ,we discover other ways.
Before the small puzzles are not solved, the big puzzles cannot be solved either, so we have to solve one after the other smaller puzzles.Father,mother,sister,brother are the smaller puzzles.Nakshatra and Ayanamsa are big puzzles.


Quote:
The fact is that if we’re staying with the historical use of the sidereal zodiac (which means India and the East), there aren’t any 28 nakshatras that can be measured. Al Biruni is the very best source we have on India’s astrological use of the nakshatras, and he writes that he never found anyone in India who could recognize the stars of the nakshatras. He also writes that the Indian lunar stations were of unequal length as their making stars are at various distances from each other. (There is on-going debate about which stars mark each of the mansions as they aren't mentioned in ancient texts.)


In my opinion, it is important that we control the statements.
Whether an assertion or astrological text written sooner or later is not important.It doesn't mean, that if it's written earlier, it's more true.



Quote:
The equal 28 lunar stations came into being during the medieval Arabic period when Persian astrology was becoming wholly tropical. So the equal 28 division of lunar mansions is used only in the tropical zodiac and was never used in India for astrology.


We can't say 28 lunar stations are not correct, because they are not used in India. We must be prepared for surprises.We have to be open to everything and not limit ourselves with new-old, vedic-western discussions and let take the right ,drop the wrong , if we want to do scientific research.


Quote:
Amen to that! And if no one replicates or tests research that has already been done for peer review...


Of course, I expected at least a few astrologers to test my claims and contact me or write their opinion here on the forum, because the topics I have researched and published are very important and affect many people.
Except one astrologer, no one has ever written whether my claims are true or not.There are of course many reasons for this.

For tropical astrologers, the reason I work sidereally.
For sidereal astrologers it is reason that I work with harmonics.
For the Hamburg School of Astrolgy it is reason that I do sidereal calculations and use harmonics higher than 16.
I am very open to criticism and would also be glad to answer any questions that may arise.

Quote:
I've started to do this myself. For example, I have two siblings younger than myself who suffer from Alzheimer's disease.



if you have any questions or if you have any points, that are not clear,
you can always ask me publicly or privately.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi wrote:
Quote:
Krishnamurti system is based on Placidus house system and it is also controversial whether Placidus system is correct.
For the Krishnamurti system because of sub-sub or sub-sub-sub division must be the birth time very accurate.
Because the birth times are not exact, the birth times may be corrected according to the Krishnamurti system so that everything fits.I mean, you have to be very careful.

I am away from home today, so at this time am replying to only this one concept. It's true that the birth time must be very precise which means the beginning degree of the zodiac must be precise. I have never used Placidus houses with the Krishnamurti system. (I believe Krishnamurti's use of Placidus houses may be an error, but that's another story.) I was concentrating on the subdivisions of the Vimshottari system which of course must be based on the very precise degree of zero Aries in the zodiac.

But in application Krishnamurti sub-divisions relate to houses and house lords, and this leads us directly to the never researched meanings of houses. One question leads directly to many others. It seems that the only possible research at present has to be based only on planetary relationships. Real astrological research must be mathematical (left brain), and astrologers are mystics.

Quote:
The Signifier of Father
https://ia801504.us.archive.org/6/items/thesignifieroffather/The%20Signifier%20of%20Father.pdf

Surely this particular research provides proof of the sidereal zodiac that can't be questioned as the research is based on AA birth time and precise times of death of the father. This data is as close to flawless as we're likely to see for a long time. These death transits in the tropical zodiac would be completely different by degree and minute.

Edit 4 March to finish reply to Linchi's post

Linchi wrote:
Quote:
It is true, and who has decided that these rulers are right ?
There are so many assertions, that are almost not checked but accepted.
Why are 28 nakshatras in Ashtottari Dasa but in Vimshottari Dasa 27?
Why are 8 planets used in Ashtottari Dasa (without Ketu) but 9 planets (including Ketu) in Vimshattori Dasa?

But we cannot answer these questions. The only option we have is to test tradition. We will soon wear out our brains if we continue to ask “why?”

Quote:
The important thing is to start researching.
It could be that during the research we discover other ways.
Before the small puzzles are not solved, the big puzzles cannot be solved either, so we have to solve one after the other smaller puzzles. Father, mother, sister, brother are the smaller puzzles. Nakshatra and Ayanamsa are big puzzles.

This is something I have to think about. The Khullar system does have ways of seeing various family members in the birth chart which depends wholly on the ayanamsa value. Small and big puzzles have to be used together. I’m not sure that (for example) family members and ayanamsa can be separated, but as I said, it’s something I have to think about. I cannot reach any conclusion until I’m able to study birth charts further.

Quote:
In my opinion, it is important that we control the statements.
Whether an assertion or astrological text written sooner or later is not important. It doesn't mean, that if it's written earlier, it's more true.

We can't say 28 lunar stations are not correct, because they are not used in India. We must be prepared for surprises. We have to be open to everything and not limit ourselves with new-old, vedic-western discussions and let take the right, drop the wrong if we want to do scientific research.

For myself, I begin with tradition. If there is no tradition for a principle (such as 28 equal Indian nakshatras) then initially I don’t look in that direction. Research would soon show if there are problems with the currently used 27 mansion boundaries.

Quote:
Of course, I expected at least a few astrologers to test my claims and contact me or write their opinion here on the forum, because the topics I have researched and published are very important and affect many people.

This is true, but today's astrologers are wanting to see an easier way to see significant planets, and many don't have the software to show patterns you use. Your techniques are strictly left-brain whereas astrologers are mostly right-brain individuals. (I have no experience myself working with progressions, midpoints, planetary pictures or higher harmonics, so I can't replicate or evaluate research based on these principles.)

Quote:
Except one astrologer, no one has ever written whether my claims are true or not. There are of course many reasons for this.

It seems that most astrologers who in the past posted on this forum have left or aren’t bothering to check the forum. Except for one hard working moderator who is a tropical astrologer, there is no encouragement from moderators so there is no motivation for members to carry on conversations. Unfortunately the owner Deborah Houlding is absent from the forum.

Also secondary and tertiary progressions, midpoints, planetary pictures and mathematical harmonics have all been used by tropical astrologers, but sidereal astrologers (mainly Vedic) don't use those techniques. The Indian use of harmonics (varga charts) is totally different. So astrologers who might want to investigate your techniques aren't likely to check the sidereal forum.
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:

....... today's astrologers are wanting to see an easier way to see significant planets,..........


There's not always an easier way , so what do we do? Because the other way is difficult, should not interest us? If in the science had given up one way, because it is difficult, no progress would be possible.For example, if we can't see the stars with our bare eyes, we shouldn't build telescopes because it's hard to build them ?

We have to try to find the right one, no matter how.Of course here is important, why we deal with astrology.
And of course, there are different reasons for different astrologers, why they deal with astrology.

For myself, the question is, why do we practice astrology ?
When we seek the truth, then we should not care which school or which technique we have to use to find the truth.But if we are comfortable with the state of astrology today, we can continue as before.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi wrote:
Quote:
When we seek the truth, then we should not care which school or which technique we have to use to find the truth. But if we are comfortable with the state of astrology today, we can continue as before.

Most astrologers who have a consulting practice are indeed content with astrology as it is. They aren't looking for truth. They accept that we have truth already. If we're looking for truth we are studying, but not practicing astrology because we realize that the only honest study of astrology today must involve research.

Questions for you Cemal:

I think perhaps you don’t realize that you are using techniques that are (astrologically speaking) at the Ph.D. level whereas most astrologers (again astrologically sneaking) are at the middle school or high school level. For example for the death of father you have diagrammed these techniques:

Princess Caroline
Tertiary progrssion harmonic 16
Minor progression harmonic 16
Secondary Converse harmonic 16
Transit harmonic 16
Secondary progressed lunar phase: harmonic 16
Tertiary progressed lunar phase: harmonic 16
Minor progressed lunar phase: harmonic 16

Princess Stephanie
Solar Return harmonic 16
Lunar Return harmonic 16
Secondary converse harmonic 16
Secondary progressed lunar phase: harmonic 64
Minor progressed lunar phase: harmonic 64

Albert II
Transit harmonic 64
Secondary converse harmonic 64

Andrea Casiraghi
Transit harmonic 256
Solar return harmonic 256
Progressed lunar return harmonic 256

Are you saying that ALL these techniques will work ALL the time for events OR are you giving examples of techniques that apply sometimes but not at other times for the same event for different people?? (So you have to make a selection of techniques to use for each individual?)

Unless a full explanation is given, most of these techniques are simply “Greek” to the everyday working astrologer. I think many astrologers would have a 'deer in the headlight' response to say for example, “secondary progressed lunar phase harmonic 16” or “progressed lunar return harmonic 256.”
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linchi



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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:

Are you saying that ALL these techniques will work ALL the time for events OR are you giving examples of techniques that apply sometimes but not at other times for the same event for different people?? (So you have to make a selection of techniques to use for each individual?)


All the techniques (progressions and returns) that I use, must work,otherwise I don't use them.The event must be found in every progression and returns, but not always in the same harmonic.

There is not only one harmonic number, which is applicable to all persons and all events. Therefore we have to check at least H-16,64,256 and 1024 so that we don't miss anything.If you only work with one harmonic, e.g. 16, you will not get further from a limited point.
e.g. : could be ,that the death of the father is visible in solar return harmonic 64, but in lunar return harmonic 256.

The astrology software is very important, so if we had a software that showed other harmonic points (64,256,1024) in the 16-circle , we would only have used one harmonic.

Zet astrology software does not show other harmonics points.
The other harmonics points are already in harmonic 16, but we cannot see them because they are not marked, so to see other harmonics points, we use different harmonics.

I wrote Zet developer two years ago and nothing has changed so far.

In Nova Chartwheels you can see all other harmonics points on harmonic 4 as small black markings.But with Nova we have other problems.You can't display solar, lunar and progressions with the radix as bi-wheel, and you can't calculate user defined progressions.I have also written Nova a year ago, so far nothing has been changed, although it was written to me, that would be easy to change.

Here is Nova homepage, if you want to have a look :

https://www.alabe.com/novacw.html



Quote:
Unless a full explanation is given, most of these techniques are simply “Greek” to the everyday working astrologer. I think many astrologers would have a 'deer in the headlight' response to say for example, “secondary progressed lunar phase harmonic 16” or “progressed lunar return harmonic 256.”


Firstly, I see no reason to explain everything in detail if the astrologers show no interest in my work.If I were asked, I would explain in detail.

Secondly, I have made several publications in two years.I have a lot to do besides astrology.Astrology is only my hobby.I couldn't study too many subjects if I had to explain everything in detail.I spend a lot of time researching and preparing. The reader, who wants to learn and understand better, should not spend 5 minutes to ask ?
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linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 179

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have written it in my work "Progressed Lunar Phases", but here again how and why you can use progressed lunar phases.

There are three different progressed lunar phases.You can calculate all three progressed lunar phases with Solarfire and Janus. I believe that many have one or the other of these software.

New Moon to next new Moon :
1-Secondary progressed lunar phase (Mean period 29,5 years)
2-Tertiary progressed lunar phase (Mean period 27,3 months)
3-Minor progressed lunar phase (Mean period 13,3 months)

We divide lunar phases from new moon to next new moon 8 parts :

New Moon
Crescent Moon
First Quarter
Gibbous Moon
Full Moon
Disseminating Moon
Last Quarter
Balsamic Moon

Because the secondary lunar phases from new moon to next new moon last about 29,5 years, each phase of 8 has about 3.5 years time-window to show its effect.That is, we should be able to predict with a phase for the 3.5 years, if we knew how.After having reduced the time-window to 3.5 years, we can use solar to reduce the time to one year for the event we are looking for.

Therefore we look at the three solars that are valid for 3.5 years and find which year the event will take place.After finding the year, we will use tertiary progressed lunar phase to reduce the time-window to 3.5 months by studying 3 tertiary progressed lunar phases .And then we look at three lunar retuns and find the month of the event.If you want to know the exact day, you can check secondary progression for the month that was found.

But it is very important to use the correct keys for the Progression Rates.

The correct keys :

Secondary progression : 1 sidereal day = 1 sidereal year
Tertiary progression : 1 sidereal day = 1 sidereal month
Minor progression : 1 sidereal month = 1 sidereal year



I'll give you an example.
Janus and Solarfire can also calculate harmonic 64.

When Noel Tyl died, his active secondary progressed lunar phase was : (Arizona is taken as the location for the event.)

19 Jun 2018 AD GC 10:57:55 MST +07:00:00 Gibbous Moon (This time taken from Zet , 5-6 minutes can differ with other software )

In Harmonic 64 :

p MA/SA = p NE/PL = p ME = p AC/SU= p AC/MO = natal ME

Mercury is his AC ruler.If phase itself or dangerous planetary pictures like here MA/SA activate natal AC, AC ruler, Sun, Moon or natal MA/SA axis , then it is very dangerous for health.NE/PL could show here that he died of cancer.

His active tertiary progressed lunar phase was :

15 Oct 2019 AD GC 04:52:24 MST +07:00:00 New Moon

In Harmonic 64 :

p MA/SA = natal AC
p SU/MO = natal ME (AC Lord)



Lunar Return : Harmonic 64

Lunar NE/PL = natal AC = natal NE/PL
Lunar SA = natal MA/SA

Cancer is also indicated here.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Cemal. I’ve been reviewing some of your work. Am I correct in saying that you have discovered the use of lunar phases combined with progressions? I haven’t seen this previously anywhere else, but I haven’t studied western astrology for many years (except translations of ancient texts).

The only other micro astrology I’ve seen is India’s claim that each three astrological minutes of the zodiac have a distinct signature. (7200 for the zodiac, 600 per 30 degree sign.) In theory these minute divisions can be used to predict a lifetime of events for individuals. From my work I’ve seen that it’s primarily the ascendant that can be used in distinguishing the birth charts of individuals, and of course we aren’t able to time births down to three astrological minutes.

Now combining this principle of tiny areas in the zodiac with planetary pictures: Say we know for earthquakes a precise planetary picture must involve Jupiter and Saturn. The Jupiter/Saturn planetary picture can also have other meanings because both Jupiter and Saturn have many astrological associations. Say if we had a precise ascendant (and relevant planets?) within three minutes that we knew (from research) included the specific label of an earthquake, then we would be combining the zodiac itself with planetary meanings.

This is all hypothetical unless we find ways of timing the ascendant very precisely, and the most we can hope for at present is a birth time within half a degree or 30 minutes. (That is, if the Khullar and Krishnamurti claims are valid and accurate.) So my point is that any planetary picture can have a number of different meanings, and we have to work backwards (from a known event or birth time) to see the particular event that is related to a planetary picture. We can’t predict ahead of time which particular event will manifest from the planets alone.

But if we are looking at a particular illness such as cancer, then it certainly supports astrology if the same planetary picture occurs in the majority (or all) of birth charts for cancer patients.
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linchi



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
Am I correct in saying that you have discovered the use of lunar phases combined with progressions? I haven’t seen this previously anywhere else, but I haven’t studied western astrology for many years (except translations of ancient texts).


Progressed lunar phases have been used ,as far as I know, the beginning of the 20th century in astrology,but not the way I use it.The difference is that I compare these progressed lunar phases with the radix through harmonics in the bi-wheel.I think they are very good predictive tools,of course you should compare with the radix, otherwise we will not be able to see many things.

There are cycles in our lives.In my opinion, these cycles depend on the progresed lunar phases.The upper cycle is about 29 years,because secondary progresed lunar phases last about 29 years . If we take only New Moon, First Quarter, Full Moon, Last Quarter, then subordinate cycles are about 7 years.And can you divide these seven years into shorter cycles.


Quote:
This is all hypothetical unless we find ways of timing the ascendant very precisely, and the most we can hope for at present is a birth time within half a degree or 30 minutes. (That is, if the Khullar and Krishnamurti claims are valid and accurate.)


In my opinion, with my techniques one should be able to correct the birth time to the second.My technique is not about AC but the sun. If we can determine the exact position of the sun, the axes will be in the right places.

With AC and MC we have problems, because firstly ;the astrologers and astrology schools are not in consensus about what AC and MC mean.Secondly, there are different progressed MC calculations and we are not yet sure which is the correct one.For each progressed MC calculation there are of course different AC values.

It is also the reason why I do not consider the progressed MC and AC in my works.In the two works ("Birth Time Correction" and "The exact time of death and birth time correction") I explained,how to proceed, to check birth time and to correct birth time to the second.if anyone should have any questions, I'm always ready to answer them.


Quote:
So my point is that any planetary picture can have a number of different meanings, and we have to work backwards (from a known event or birth time) to see the particular event that is related to a planetary picture.


Of course it is true, the planets and planet pictures have many different meanings, otherwise we could not have explained everything in this world with only 9 planets.I have also written it in my work "Astrological Research Cancer Diseases",that NE/PL should not only mean cancer.


Quote:
We can’t predict ahead of time which particular event will manifest from the planets alone.


I think in certain cases, you can predict the future.if, for example, someone is psychologically unstable and has the potential for suicide, we can calculate the dangerous times.Of course we still have a long way to go.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linchi wrote:
Quote:
It is also the reason why I do not consider the progressed MC and AC in my works.In the two works ("Birth Time Correction" and "The exact time of death and birth time correction") I explained,how to proceed, to check birth time and to correct birth time to the second.if anyone should have any questions, I'm always ready to answer them.

I didn't see these works on the site you have linked at the bottom of your Skyscript posts?

One problem I have on my older computer is that long files won't load. When the page count reaches more than 50 there are problems, and sometimes your works go into the hundreds of pages. They are basically books rather than articles suited to the Internet. Of course Windows 10 no doubt handles extensive files without problems.
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