As a French speaking astrologer, I was introduced to astrology through the works of Andre Barbault in the footstep of Henri Gouchon.
Worth mentioning here is the correlation he made between the Western and Eastern World.

Uranus - Western World and the discovery of the planet in 1781. The French Revolution birthed the modern nation state in modern European history. (Freedom, Equality, Fraternity)
Neptune - Eastern World discovery of Neptune in 1846 with Karl Marx publishing his manifesto in 1848.
For this reason, he was able to predict the merging of these 2 axis in the '90s with the conjunction of Uranus and Neptune.

He also assigned Pluto to China. and the discovery of the planet in 1930. In 1931, China established the first Chinese Soviet Republic (CSR) under Mao Zedong, General Zhu De and others.

Following this cast of the characters, on the Mundane level, Jupiter and Saturn aspecting any of the Outer Planets will act as 'triggers' to World events stemming from the 3 major axis.
Jupiter-Saturn joining Pluto right now and who do we have at the center sage of the pandemic?

The 3 axis are most influential in the world because they run from East to West (natural movement of the Sun) in the Northern Hemisphere and Southern Hemisphere still relies mostly on agriculture. The Southern Hemisphere contains most of South America, one-third of Africa, Australia (being the exception), Antarctica, and some Asian islands. And their natural movement is more from South to North.

Kind regards,
Ouranos

I just finished Andre Barbault's book 'Planetary Cycles'-Mundane Astrology, English Edition published 2016; French Edition published in 2014. On page 150-151 Barbault writes:

Coming to the indicators for the 21st century in the top diagram of the interplanetary distances overleaf, we can see that the first low point is in 2010 (Great Recession), which justifies the forecasts of an economic crises perceived two decades earlier. And one can only wonder about the extreme depth of the trough as the wave plunges in 2020-21, the result of the next Jupiter-Saturn-Pluto triptych which will be relatively close to Uranus and Neptune.

It seems that Europe will be at the epicenter of this dissonance, either compelled to reform itself or threatened with division because space is limited. At least, that's if there are no natural disasters or a new pandemic, which would be suitable substitutes. In any case it will be a time of widespread discord.

Of course, now, we see Barbault's worst fear has become a pandemic affecting not just Europe—but the whole World with possible dire economic consequences if this pandemic worsens into 2021. These words by Barbault echo the same french translation by Paul from a Barbault article in an earlier post.

Thank you SteveS for the quote.

And to complement the lineage of 'The interplanetary distances overleaf', the idea was first developed by Henri Gouchon in 1940 and named as such by Armand Barbault, the elder brother of Andre Barbault, who then brought the theory to another level.

We can add our own understanding of the World by looking at all the actors.
Let's take Russia for example.
If we see that the Jupiter/ Saturn conjunction is in a waning semi-square to Neptune (Russia), and Neptune in a waxing semi-square to Pluto in Cap, we can say that this will be a 'crisis in growth', the waning semi-square suggesting to let go of old structures before seeing any structural changes. Key moments will show up when Jupiter (April 2022) and later Saturn (summer 2025) reach Neptune.

Blessings,
Ouranos

Ouranos wrote:

And to complement the lineage of 'The interplanetary distances overleaf', the idea was first developed by Henri Gouchon in 1940 and named as such by Armand Barbault, the elder brother of Andre Barbault, who then brought the theory to another level.

Indeed. Par-excellent mundane astrology work came from Henri Gouchon's original work.

Ouranos wrote:

And to complement the lineage of 'The interplanetary distances overleaf', the idea was first developed by Henri Gouchon in 1940 and named as such by Armand Barbault, the elder brother of Andre Barbault, who then brought the theory to another level.

I only came across this acknowledgement of Henri Gouchon's in reading Barbault's Planetary cycles. From what I can gather he was actually the originator of the cyclic planetary index?

Uranus - Western World and the discovery of the planet in 1781. The French Revolution birthed the modern nation state in modern European history. (Freedom, Equality, Fraternity)
Neptune - Eastern World discovery of Neptune in 1846 with Karl Marx publishing his manifesto in 1848.
For this reason, he was able to predict the merging of these 2 axis in the '90s with the conjunction of Uranus and Neptune.

He also assigned Pluto to China. and the discovery of the planet in 1930. In 1931, China established the first Chinese Soviet Republic (CSR) under Mao Zedong, General Zhu De and others.

Interesting. Of course the formation of the People's Republic in 1949 is quite reasonably close to the Saturn-Pluto conjunction while the Cultural Revolution in 1966 happened during a Saturn-Pluto opposition. By 'Eastern World' you mean eastern Europe and Russia not Asia?

I notice Barbault does have a few eccentricities. For example, his view the Jupiter-Saturn cycle primarily relates to just Europe rather than the world in general. I also understand he rejected the use of eclipses?

Mark

On a different point I couldn't see any reference to the planetary orbs Barbault uses in his book on Planetary Cycles. I may have missed this but if anyone can clarify this point for me it would be much appreciated.

Hello Mark,

Mark wrote: I only cust came across acknowledgement of Henri Gouchon's in reading Barbault's Planetary cycles. From what I can gather he was actually the originator of the cyclic planetary index?Mark

That is true!

Mark wrote: Interesting. Of course the formation of the People's Republic in 1949 is quite reasonably close to the Saturn-Pluto conjunction while the Cultural Revolution in 1966 happened during a Saturn-Pluto opposition. By 'Eastern World' you mean eastern Europe and Russia not Asia?

Interesting! The Chinese Soviet Republic, established in 1931 was done so during the Saturn/Pluto opposition cycle, still attached to Soviet Union by its name but representing a phase of letting go symbolically in the waning cycle.

China came alive as a nation during the SA/PL conjunction in 1947 (5 degrees Retrograde Orb from December 1946) The Constitution of the Republic of China is the fifth and current Chinese constitution, ratified by the Kuomintang during the Constituent National Assembly session on December 25, 1946, in Nanjing, and adopted on December 25, 1947.
Became officially "People's Republic of China" October 1, 1949 when Mars moved over the conjunction point in Leo.

I notice Barbault does have a few eccentricities. For example, his view the Jupiter-Saturn cycle primarily relates to just Europe rather than the world in general. I also understand he rejected the use of eclipses?

I find it too. My assumption is that he saw the concept of Europe more as an Economic Treaty rather than a Nation or Country. But at the same time making it more volatile and affecting more countries by its nature.

He did not dig into Eclipses cycles but I know that Gouchon was a big fan or Primary Directions (Simplified Primary Directions) in the tradition of Dorotheus and Ptolemy, of Mshallh and Ab Mashar, of Regiomontanus and Placidus, of Morin de Villefranche and William Lilly. More modern would be Martin Gansten.
Although it is hard to apply to a country because 4' of arc = 1 year of life. So the scenario of our life is written in the first 6 hours or so after our birth.
Combined with the Lords of the Year and the Profections they are a powerful predictive technique. Most of the predictive techniques we use are based on Time but Primary Directions are based on the rotation of the Earth.
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/directions.html

Appreciate your professionalism Mark!
Ouranos

Ournanos wrote:

China came alive as a nation during the SA/PL conjunction in 1947 (5 degrees Retrograde Orb from December 1946) The Constitution of the Republic of China is the fifth and current Chinese constitution, ratified by the Kuomintang during the Constituent National Assembly session on December 25, 1946, in Nanjing, and adopted on December 25, 1947.
Became officially "People's Republic of China" October 1, 1949 when Mars moved over the conjunction point in Leo.

I can see this being a significant chart for the Kuomintang led regime under Chaing Kai shek that became the 'Chinese government in exile' in Tawain. But this constitution and political system was driven out of China over 70 years ago. So I dont accept the logic of your position this can be a viable chart for China today. I also dont agree that China 'came to life' in 1947.

If I was going to accept any chart for China as a whole prior to 1949 it would instead be either the chart for the the Xinhai Revolution of October 10th 1911 (celebrated as national day in Tawain today) or the establishment of the first government of the Republic of China (ROC) on January 1st 1912.

The events of 1911-1912 ended thousands of years of Imperial rule and were historically very significant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_ ... %931949%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1911_Revolution

While I can see the Saturn-Pluto connection to the PRC I dont necessarily see it as valid in general for non-Communist China as a whole despite the chart for 1947 you cite. For example, in the chart for the Xinhai Revolution the dominant planetary cycles are instead a Jupiter-Saturn opposition and Uranus -Neptune opposition. Its an intriguing chart also featuring a Sun-Uranus square, Moon-Jupiter opposition and Moon-Saturn conjunction.

Revolution started 7pm on 10th of October 1911, in the city of Wuchang, Hubei province, China.



The Wuchang regiment mutinied against the Qing Empire on (October 10th or ‘Double-Ten Day’). The rebel soldiers stormed government buildings, arrested loyalist soldiers and seized control of the city. On October 11th the rebels declared a republican government in Hubei province. There they hoisted a flag containing 18 connected stars, representing the unification of China’s 18 provinces.

The successful uprising in Wuchang kickstarted a wave of similar rebellions around China. Over the next six weeks, there were at least 22 different uprisings from Changsha to Jiangsu, from Shanghai to Shandong. In every location, rebels wrestled control from provincial politicians or bureaucrats and proclaimed their independence from the Qing.

The revolution was achieved with minimal violence for the most part, though some areas saw heavy fighting and considerable bloodshed.
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'The Iron-Blood' 18 star symbol of the Wuchang or Xinhai revolution.
Mark

Hello Mark,
China was born a few thousands years ago. By 'came to life' meant more 'changed its constitution'.
As you point out, ROC was established in 1912 and I respect your choice for this date. Many astrologers use the 1949 chart, including Oner Doser
https://isarastrology.org/oner-doser-pr ... 20-part-2/
who predicted a period of growth for China in 2020. God only knows!

Just like House systems, I do not think there is one truth.
What works for you is best suited in your quest!

Kind regards,
Ouranos

Ouranos wrote:

Hello Mark,
China was born a few thousands years ago. By 'came to life' meant more 'changed its constitution'.
As you point out, ROC was established in 1912 and I respect your choice for this date. Many astrologers use the 1949 chart, including Oner Doser
https://isarastrology.org/oner-doser-pr ... 20-part-2/
who predicted a period of growth for China in 2020. God only knows!

Just like House systems, I do not think there is one truth.
What works for you is best suited in your quest!

Kind regards,
Ouranos

Hello Ouranos,
You are obviously not aware of my view on national charts. I wasn't proposing 1911 or 1912 as the only viable dates for a chart. I dont advocate them as such. I have never believed countries need have one chart in the nature of a nativity. Certainly, older countries often have numerous key dates in their history that seem to leave an astrological resonance. Although, I suppose some countries like Canada or Australia are not so controversial or cluttered with candidate dates. I certainly use the 1949 chart for China too. In terms of England and the United Kingdom for example I use charts for 0925, 1066, 1707, 1801 and 1927.

My problem with your 1947 chart was rather that it seemed to me initially a bit like the constitution of a dead, failed state like the Confederate States of America. However, I accept I was too hasty to dismiss your argument. I see this is still the constitution for Tawain today. So I supppose it does represent a model of a more democratic China that still survives in Tawain.

https://law.moj.gov.tw/Eng/LawClass/Law ... e=A0000001

Have you tested this chart out or is this more of an academic case for this date you are making?

Kind regards,

Mark


Kin

Thank you Mark!
Just read the same view with Astrology King.
We are on the same page.

Cheers!
Ouranos

The excellent software Planetdance by Jean Cremers has now a section Gouchon/Barbault Mundane Cycles in the section Time/Tools

This module is designed for mundane cycles analysis, using the methods initially set out by Henri Gouchon, and later developed by Andre Barbault.
The main window displays one hundred years of cycles analysis using a range of factors. At present the module is limited to displaying data for the current century only.

Regards,
Ouranos