Will John Doe divorce his husband?

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I am posting this chart because I’m having some difficulty getting to a final judgement, since so many things are going on.

So this is a 3rd-party question (A is asking if John Dow will divorce his husband), but A asked this because if the divorce happens he may have a relationship with John Doe (I’d like to try to analyze this possibility also, if you could help).

So I gave John Doe L7 Pisces Jupiter, and his husband L1 Virgo Mercury.

John Doe is extremely unhappy and maybe stressed about the possibility of having to break the relationship. Jupiter in fall.

The husband seems okay (maybe unaware of John’s intentions) but a lot of things are coming.

Mercury will hit Uranus and the Sun by conjunction and square the Moon and Mars before reaching a trine with Jupiter.

So Mercury will likely suffer, lose its power (combustion), be unhappy (square Moon) and go through a lot of arguments (Mars). At the end, reaching the trine Jupiter I got stuck. This means a farewell or a good outcome? Since Jupiter is afflicted and trine Algol, I thought it means a farewell and indeed a divorce (your help is appreciated here).

As to the chances of the querent in having a relationship, my first option would be to choose L1 as the querent, but that was already the husband. So I thought about the Moon.

Jupiter detriment is the Moon, and there is no aspect with the Moon, so I’d say there is little chance for the querent to have something with John Doe.

Thanks in advance for any help
Yair Alon
Kabbalist

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Hello Yair Alon,
Preliminary analysis:
- The question is too early (First 3 degrees on ASC)
- Lord of ASC (also yourself) combust in the VIII "The signifier of the consultant combust shows him in great fear and dominated by some important person" (Lilly). Maybe your inability to help in this matter.
+ Plus side: Mercury in mutual reception with Venus. Moon last square Mercury translating the light to Venus by sextile. And you are right, the next lover is the Vth (Vth from the VIIth ruled by the Moon) not the VIIth

And the husband is not OK, he is simply unaware of what's going on (Mercury's condition)
I will sleep on this and reserve my judgment for later.
"Opinion is something in between knowledge and ignorance" Plato
Blessings!

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Hello Yair Alon,

The real question being Mr A's chances with Mr John Dow (to which the divorce is a prerequisite, but secondary), I give L1 to the querent and L7 to John Dow.

The husband is Saturn, which John Frawley said naturally rules Quesited's/Querent's another half.

I have another reason to believe Saturn is indeed the husband: it's the only planet in conjunction with L7 Jupiter.

My judgment is no. There won't be a divorce. Saturn rules Jupiter's current sign and next (where the conjunction will perfect). The conjunction is still applying. Their union is solid.

Since L1 mercury is separating from a wide, out-of-sign square with L7 Jupiter, I don't see a relationship, either.

Beware of Mr John Dow's intention: Jupiter is in fall.

L1 Mercury is combust (and applying!) and in an unfortunate house. This is a grave warning against proceeding. I'd really advise Mr A to look after his own emotional health and get out of this fast. It doesn't seem very healthy to dwell on this relationship.

He deserves better than this quagmire. The best is yet to come.

Ps I don't think Algol is relevant here: fixed stars only work by conjunction, or so I learnt.


Amelia
Last edited by AmeliaS on Fri May 01, 2020 7:25 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Ouranos wrote:Hello Yair Alon,
Preliminary analysis:
- The question is too early (First 3 degrees on ASC)
- Lord of ASC (also yourself) combust in the VIII "The signifier of the consultant combust shows him in great fear and dominated by some important person" (Lilly). Maybe your inability to help in this matter.
+ Plus side: Mercury in mutual reception with Venus. Moon last square Mercury translating the light to Venus by sextile. And you are right, the next lover is the Vth (Vth from the VIIth ruled by the Moon) not the VIIth

And the husband is not OK, he is simply unaware of what's going on (Mercury's condition)
I will sleep on this and reserve my judgment for later.
"Opinion is something in between knowledge and ignorance" Plato
I agree with Quranos here that an early ascendant means the situation is volatile. But I proceeded to judge because the chart seems to depict the situation well otherwise.

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To Yair Alon: Did Mr A ask the question or is it you inquiring on his behalf?
To Amelia: Lots of shadow here with the Moon in 12th, enough for Shakespeare to write another play. I am interested by your approach and a question.
If we look at the motion of the planets, Jupiter and Saturn will both turn R and
Saturn returning to Capricorn (nocturnal) before returning to Aquarius (diurnal)
Jupiter will leave his Fall in Capricorn when he meets Saturn to perfect the aspect.
How do you see this part of the scenario here?
Blessings!

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Thanks, Ouranos ameliaastrology!

Ouranos, Mr. A asked the question himself. That’s one of the reason I had difficulty giving a signifier for him.

Related to that, thanks also @ameliaastrology. I really liked you approach. I never saw something similar, but I think it made sense.

I will read the chart analyzed by Deb Houlding too, but, like Ouranos, would like to know what do you see in that translation of light Ouranos noticed (the role of Venus) and all the movements he noted about Jupiter and Saturn.

If I may risk making a judgment... The fact that both are going retrograde seems to indicate that they will establish a strong connection, maybe like it was in the past? The fact that Jupiter will go towards Saturn in his own sign is an indicative of keeping the relation, as ameliaastrology said.

Ameliaastrology, what do you mean by "The best is yet to come"?

BEST
Yair Alon
Kabbalist

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Thank you both for the insights!

In my experience, secondary significators often aren't enough to push for perfection when the main significators are shown to be separating, unless we think of a relationship as something that can be "partly perfect". I might venture that, for Mr. A, there will either be a relationship, or there will be none.

I got the idea from Bonatti. He valued consistent testimonies among primary and secondary significators. It doesn't always have to be like this, but for a marriage/relationship, this often applies.

Apart from Venus being only a secondary significator, these planets aren't particularly strong nor do they have very bright reception among them. I also have some doubt as to what Venus really represents. Perhaps Mr. A could tell us whether Gemini looks like Mr John Dow, and whether they met at work (House 10), and so on. Here Venus rules Houses 2 & 9. My first thought about this translation was something to do with a new job, someone at work, upcoming travels or Mr. A's money/value. ---Or even a new lover Mr. A will meet during, for example, work-related travels.

But of course, if the description fits, I have no problem with Venus signifying Mr John Dow.

Yes, Jupiter and Saturn will soon turn retrograde. Thanks for pointing this out, and I haven't thought through on this one. But given that they are both ponderous planets, my opinion is that these back & forth movements, which stretch to very long after our moon has finished its journey, might have little to with Mr. A. Also, I doubt if both planets going retrograde is enough testimony to a divorce. I would rather focus on the lack of positive connection between L1 & L7. That's because even if they got a divorce, the separating square will still testify against a relationship.

My humble opinion.

Amelia

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A final note on the mutual reception between Mercury and Venus and the Moon translating the light.
Mr A would be ill-advised to engage in a marital lawsuit
- Moon in XII conjunct Part of Lawsuit 8Leo25 (AS+JU-MA) in the Asellus
cluster(blindness)
- Venus ruling the IX (lawyers) and II (money)
- Moon translating to Venus and opposing Mars (litigation and police officers as civil servants)

Keep us updated Yair Alon and good luck!
Blessings!

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Ouranos wrote:A final note on the mutual reception between Mercury and Venus and the Moon translating the light.
Mr A would be ill-advised to engage in a marital lawsuit
- Moon in XII conjunct Part of Lawsuit 8Leo25 (AS+JU-MA) in the Asellus
cluster(blindness)
- Venus ruling the IX (lawyers) and II (money)
- Moon translating to Venus and opposing Mars (litigation and police officers as civil servants)

Keep us updated Yair Alon and good luck!
This is nice, Ouranos.

May I clarify on my remark on "not very bright" mutual reception:
I do note that Mercury & Venus rule each other. But the translating planet, Moon, isn't received by either Mercury nor Venus (except by term and that only).

L1 is combust, another indicator that Moon probably can't receive his light. Also, Venus is not strong enough herself to "nurture" mercury back to health. These are enough to render this otherwise nice aspect useless.

But given something like a lawsuit isn't nice to have, and instead of perfecting the matter, it would indeed just meddle in and make a mess, I think Ouranos' perspective is really worth bearing in mind.

All the best to Mr. A & good luck too Yair Alon!
Last edited by AmeliaS on Sat May 02, 2020 2:19 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Thank you Amelia for your insight and references! And to everyone who contributes with their questions... and anguish!
“Be steady and well-ordered in your work (horary) so that you can be fierce and original in your work.???
― Gustave Flaubert
Blessings!