Watches Lost

1
Hi everyone,

I was hoping, if you have the time and you're able to, if you could kindly help with an issue I'm having. My mom had 5 watches in a ziplock bag in a dresser. My dad had some as well that have now gone missing. My mom is incredibly panicked and thinks someone stole them. Specifically some people who come to clean our house (reasons: they are the only people that are in our house and upstairs without us there). I don't think they were stolen but I can't seem to figure out where they are. A couple of the watches were very very meaningful to my mom and she's having major anxiety. I candidly don't know how to do lost and found horary astrology but I wanted to post the chart first and then I can start my research and add to the thread. If you have any insight at all, I would be so grateful.

My specific question is where are the watches. Were they stolen?

Image

Image


Thank you.

WJ
Thank you!
WJ

2
Hi WJ - our forum rules require that the astrologer attempt the chart. We can give feedback and answer astrological questions. If the astrologer cannot interpret the chart then that raises questions about the radical nature of the chart.

My advice would be to start with significators. Did your mother ask the question? If so, give her the 1st house and her watches the 2nd house. If she did not, I would give her the 4th house and her watches the 5th (2nd from 4th). A question of whether they are stolen or not is usually pretty easy to answer and I would follow Deb's advice here:

https://www.skyscript.co.uk/wit.html

3
Hey Tanit, thanks so much for your response. I haven't forgotten I've been researching after my class. I'm just drafting up my insights now and I'll post them as soon as I'm finished.
Thank you!
WJ

4
Insights:

- My mom kept asking about where they could be, she asked me if i could see if they could be found through astrology. We both have been asking about and discussing the potential options for days. After a couple hours I remembered that she asked me to create a chart and decided to ask the question.


- 1st scenario: she is the ascendent
mom: saturn
watches: mars (succedent) + moon (cadent) + venus (angular)
venus and saturn are aspecting, positive sign for recovery

- 2nd scenario: she is the 4th house:
mom: mercury
watches: sun + venus + saturn + moon
retrograde and no aspects

- 3rd scenario: she is the 10th house
10th house: (i normally use this personally to represent mothers)
mom: jupiter
watches: venus + saturn (this makes sense as one of the watches is made of leather) + moon
Thank you!
WJ

5
If your mother asked the question to you, then I see no need to turn the chart. I would give the ascendant to your mother and the 2nd to the watch(es).

The most positive signification for recovery is angular Moon applying to the 2nd lord in the 2nd house (Mars) via trine and the Moon is disposited by a benefic. Mars is also retro which can signal a return. Fire significators: fire signs indicate places near heat or fire: near chimneys or radiators or where fires have been, near iron or the walls and partitions of a house - or east. Sagittarius: High lands or grounds, upper rooms or near the fire or radiator, stables, hills. Aries: Roof coverings, ceilings, plastering in houses. Unfrequented places, sandy or hilly ground. The Moon angular in the 10th can suggest a frequently used area. I do think Jupiter/Saturn aspecting the 2nd lord suggests losing the watches through both accident and reorganization. The Sun aspecting the 2nd lord and being the 7th lord in the 8th could suggest at least one of the watches was taken/stolen.

Does your mother have a sister or friendly female neighbor? The 3rd lord in the 7th is trining the important planets in the 12th and could help find the watches. My guess is one of the best ways would be going through items that have already been organized or need organized, based on the Jupiter/Saturn square to Mars and the fact that Venus is helping in a sign of Virgo - a sign I normally attribute to logic and organization.

Edit: I just realized you asked about the cleaners stealing the item and I think Venus here could represent them. Sun is disposited by Venus but Venus itself here seems friendly so I would be skeptical of them stealing the watches. It is possible that one of them did steal a watch though but I definitely would not blame all of them based on Venus here. Have you asked the cleaners if they have seen the watches? To me it seems like Venus could help.

6
According to Lilly, an undignified but angular planet could be a thief. Here weak and angular Venus and Lord 2 Mars are just separating from a minor aspect. The 7th house ruler the Sun, like Venus, is in fall, opposite Mars. It would seem like someone is at fault. But since it is an inconjunct, like Tanit I'm not entirely sure there has been a thief. Is it possible that the cleaners have misplaced the watches? Some misunderstanding?

Meanwhile you may want to observe which planet rules the PoF and that planet's condition.

Reference: William Lilly's chart: "Fish Stolen"
https://atlasastrology.com/2019/03/04/lillys-lost-fish/

7
Thank you both for the help, I really appreciate it. I'm going to ask them tomorrow morning as soon as they get here. She's super upset. I added P.Fort to the chart and it's sitting in L1 separating from a trine from the moon and under the same rulership as the watches- Aries: 7°33'31".

They are very friendly but I think based on the chart I'm now thinking they are guilty. They are friends though, if one stole them the other one know. Also, there has been such strange times once when they took a cleaning supply my mom loved and she kept asking about it and the cleaning lady magically found it in her car. I don't know if that was ever a coincidence or not.
Thank you!
WJ

8
Lilly and Bonatti both tend to say that Venus and Jupiter do not harm on purpose but I know that is not always the case. Venus badly placed does keep poor companions, so it could be one cleaner is Venus and one is Sun. Normally I think of planets peregrine on an angle as a thief more than just in the 7th. Venus has triplicity in earth signs so she isn't entirely without merit. Venus shows no interest for Mars. I do think Sun is suspect though.

9
It wasn't two watches though, it was 7 approximately. 5 belonged to my mom and 2-3 belonged to my dad. I'm having a hard time understanding why they would take those ones specifically when there's so many watches in that space specifically and many are much more expensive.

the sun and saturn are separating from a square aspect meanwhile the sun and venus are approaching a positive aspect.

If they were stolen though, are there still chances of getting them back?

My mom is so upset she wants to fire them immediately and not let them back into our house.
Thank you!
WJ

10
WJ - I never said two watches, I was referring to the cleaners you mentioned earlier.

As I said, the chart suggests strong indications of recovery of at least some of the watches.

How are the Sun and Venus aspecting? They are in aversion. There is no Ptolemic aspect. They are in signs contra antiscia but even then the degrees are not really valid to consider that, IMO. I am having trouble understanding why you think Venus is suspect beyond it being angular and in fall. It trines the ascendant lord and has minor essential dignity and is a benefic. That to me is not enough to accuse the cleaners. Again, it seems more helpful than harmful. They might have seen some of the watches while cleaning, for example, and might be able to relay that.

Try to figure out what Sun could represent. Libra and Sun are actually both masculine indicators, and you mentioned female cleaners. Libra: Well proportioned body, inclines more towards being tall and slender than short and fleshy. The face is rounded and usually attractive with a clear complexion, though there is an inclination towards pimples and dimpled skin in older Librans. The hair is naturally fair, smooth and capable of growing long. Sun: Usually the Sun represents a man of a good, large and strong corporature; a yellow, saffron complexion, a round, large forehead: goggle-eyes or large, sharp and piercing; a body strong and well composed, not so beautiful as lovely; full of heat, their hair yellowish, and therefore quickly bald, much hair on their beard, and usually a high ruddy complexion, and their bodies fleshy; in conditions they are very bountiful, honest, sincere, well-minded, of great and large heart, high-minded, of healthful constitution, very humane; yet sufficiently spirited, not loquacious.

Could her husband have lost any of the watches? Remember too that the 7th lords husband of the querent.

11
Hi everyone, just circling back to share some added perspective. We asked them in the morning when they came and I highly doubt that they took the watches. That said, this is the 5th time that they've come and something has been broken.

I read the chart incorrectly because I was tired. Was I wanted to say was Venus is separating from a square from the sun and approaching a trine with Saturn. Mars has come into contact with both my mom and the Sun.

So all in all right now, we're looking for new cleaning ladies and still looking for the watches and hope that they eventually turn up.

Thank you, all.
Thank you!
WJ