skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

AP - August 27: Mars perihelon

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane Astrology & World Events
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Archived Post



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 234
Location: Skyscript

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:00 am    Post subject: AP - August 27: Mars perihelon Reply with quote

20 Aug 2003

Trypper:

Hello,

I'm synchronistically getting pinged on this date quite a bit.

Can any of you tell me if there is some astrological significance to August 27th? I know there is a new moon and that Mars is close to Earth but is there anything compelling going on that I've missed?

I just have a feeling about it.

I apologize in advance for taking your time, I really appreciate any assistance you could give me.

Gratefully,

trypper

-------------------------

Tom:

Hy Trypper,

Elsewhere I mentioned that a transit chart by itself doesn't tell us too much regarding mundane events. It needs to be compared to something, at the very least pinpointed to a particular location. I ran the chart for Noon Washington DC and without a comparison it doesn't tell us much.

The only thing that jumped out at me was that a day or so later, Jupiter,the Sun, and maybe Venus will be conjunct the fixed star Regulus which is usually a positive. It would make for an interesting birth, particularly if those planets were on or near the ASC.

Compare it to one of the US charts for more information.

Tom

-------------------------

Trypper:

Thank you very much, Tom. That was actually quite helpful.

I've just got very strong feelings about the time frame around the 27th to the 29th and thereabouts.

I'm located in the Northeast so Washington is probably close enough.

I appreciate your help.

----------------------------

Graelhaven:

a new moon and mars being close to the earth isn't enough? =) this is the astronomical event of a lifetime, actually of many lifetimes. I know others get excited about comets and such, but if you have any appreciation at all for electromagnetic fields and the change in the cosmic climate by such an alignment, this is important!!! And worthy of your concerted attention!

----------------------------

Trypper:

Thank you MissB, you are so right.

I'm trying to pin it down a little bit (easier to say than do, I know).

Regulus being the Ruler or Lawgiver, the Heart of the Lion. When Tom told me that Jupiter, the Sun, and maybe Venus will be conjunct Regulus a day or two later it seemed to cast light on what was going on.

Any hunches or gut instinct would always be appreciated.

Kind regards,

-----------------------------

Tom:

Quote:
a new moon and mars being close to the earth isn't enough?


Nope! It doesn't indicate what will happen much less where.

The Mars phenomenon is interesting, but I don't see the connection of perihelion to astrology. To the best of my knowledge it isn't mentioned in any of the Western traditional texts, or modern texts for that matter. I think it's been something like 60,000 years since it was near this close, and that is well before recorded human history.

As soon as something happens it will be attributed to the Mars approach, but since it won't happen again for a long time, I'm not persuaded that it has any useful astrological meaning. Yes "as above so below," but if it only occurs once in 60,000 years, I'd be careful what I did with it.

There are cases in history where astrologers made predictions based on unprecedented astronomical events and they usually caused a lot of panic and nothing happened. During the middle ages there was a bunch of planets conjunct in Pisces about the time of a Great Conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter. A reccurance of Noah's flood was predicted; people panicked, and Noah remained number one.

-----------------------------

Trypper:

You are correct about that, Tom. I guess I'm looking at this from a more personal perspective than a global one.

We live in interesting times, eh?

----------------------------

Graelhaven:

Tom,
Are you misunderstanding me on purpose?
A lifetime event isnt exciting or worthy of attention? If the only thing this does is allow you a look at another planetary body with the naked eye (and it is pretty damn visible right now, a mere pair of binoculars will give you a spectacular view) and say, Yes, I saw mars back in 2003, it was incredible... what more spectacular? this is all by itself and incredible event!

Now, as to electromagnetic fields, astrological infuences, etc...

the lunar cycle effects humans, why? because the universal gravitational pull is a hell of a lot more powerful to our beings than we like to admit, so too with planetary alignments. two reasons that humans are apprehensive right now could easily be attributed to the proximity of Mars and to the human response to the red planet in general. If you had Ancient astrologers here now, what do you think they would portend to the increasing size and brightness of Mars?
The same damn thing they've been saying for Millenia, war.... =) other than that, one would definitely have to lay the planets along a chart to give it more personal meaning.

Trypper,
you need to give reference to what you are refering if you want some kind of discussion on what the angles mean to you in particular. for instance, what is being affected in your chart? and that would really go under traditional astrology, or beginners rather than Mundane, which is reference to global or national events, not personal. Missb

----------------------------------------

Trypper:

My apologies, MissB. I'm very much a newbie and I didn't realize that.

Sorry,

---------------------------------------

Tom:

Beth,

Quote:
Tom,
Are you misunderstanding me on purpose?


I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm referring to its astrological significance. I don't think it has any, and if I'm wrong, we don't know what the significance is because it hasn't happened before.

The other way to look at it is that Mars has a perihelion every two years. Nowhere in any book I've read does any astrologer refer to that. No one says, Well, Mars was at perihelion at this time and this means that. So this year the perihelion is closer than ever. Great, but as far as astrology goes, I don't think it means anything.

We've had two straight weeks of rain and cloudy weather and I haven't seen the damn thing yet. It's nice today and if it holds I'll peek tonight.

Quote:
If you had Ancient astrologers here now, what do you think they would portend to the increasing size and brightness of Mars?


I don't know. They might predict a war or something, but other predictions based on rare astronomical events were usually busts.

As for the gravitational effects, put me in the camp of those who think that isn't relevant to astrology. I could be wrong, but the idea that the stars are the puppet masters via gravitational "strings" is one that I've never accepted. To be fair, there is evidence that some such phenomenon can affect things on earth. The famous clam experiment in Indiana for example, and John Nelson's work on radio waves is another.

Sorry.

---------------------------

Graelhaven:

Trypper, that was not a criticism, it was a piece of information so you could better get an answer to what you were asking. no appologies please! I'm the last person to criticize you!

Tom,
Do you live by the sea? I mean I could go all physicist on you, but it isnt necessary... New moon, no waves, full moon big waves... so the moon is strong enough to effect GLOBAL water rise and fall, but you are immune? hmmmmmmm....I dont think so. (opinion of course)

new moon fewer crimes full moon more crimes, yet anyone with half a brain who was a thief would know that dark of the moon would be better time to hide in dark... but anyway. There is far to much emperical evidence that the gravitational pull effects humans as well as the tides.
okay a point of view following.....
how can you claim to feel astrology works if you dont think the planets have aught to do with it? that makes no sense to me??? I mean, there is either an order to the universe and therefore astrology makes sense or there isn't. you cannot have science without astrology nor chaos with it? Its in the math....

--------------------------------

Tom:

Hi Beth,

Quote:
Do you live by the sea? I mean I could go all physicist on you, but it isnt necessary... New moon, no waves, full moon big waves... so the moon is strong enough to effect GLOBAL water rise and fall, but you are immune?


I'm not a wave, and I'm not immune to gravity either, but that doesn't mean Mars sends rays to cause me to become angry at certain times of the year.

Quote:
new moon fewer crimes full moon more crimes, yet anyone with half a brain who was a thief would know that dark of the moon would be better time to hide in dark...


I've never seen any evidence to support this or any other full Moon theory. In fact, I think it makes more sense astrologiclaly to believe that screwy things happen more often on the New Moon, but that's another story.

I do acknowledge the existence of some evidence of physical celestial influence on Earth, but the minimal evidence and complete lack of conection to astrology keeps me from buying into the idea that the planets cause things.

Quote:
how can you claim to feel astrology works if you dont think the planets have aught to do with it?


The saying is "as above so below" not "what's above causes what's below." I don't think there is a cause and effect relationship. "Astrology reflects reality, it doesn't create it," is what I think Deb said elsewhere on this board. And yes, because of this, I do believe that trying to "prove" astrology via the scientific method is a waste of time and effort.

There is an order and logic to the universe, but I don't see how it follows that, necessarily, one causes the other. Cause and effect is part of the scientific mindset, and I don't see the world that way.

In the words of Robert Hand, "The planets don't cause anything."

-----------------------

Graelhaven:

I dated a cop for 2.5 years, they staffed by the full moon. Full moons have a serious effect on crime and violence. used to have more than double staff on full moons and still run short of people to cover all the nonsense going on.

--------------------------

Tom:

Hi Beth,

While that may be true in his case, I am a firm believer that anecdotes prove nothing. Evidence to me would be a survey of police departments all over the place, ditto recordings of crimes on nights of full moon versus other nights, etc.

An example of genuine evidence of lunar influence is a test done many years ago with oysters. It is known that oyster shells open and close to the rhythms of the ocean. It was generally assumed that this was the result of the stimulating effects of changing tides.

A bunch of oysters were placed in a suitable tank in, I think Indiana and the opening and closing was observed. After a period of random results, the oysters settled into a pattern that would have matched the tides, had there been any, in Indiana, deomstrating that the Moon seemed to influence the behavior of the oysters. That is evidence and I'm not an oyster.

Another bit of evidence is the work of John Nelson. This had something to do with radio waves and I'm probably going to get the details wrong. Nelson was an engineer for I think RCA and he was asked to study why certain kinds of radio transmissions had difficulties at various times when no apparent intereference could be found. In brief he erected a model that could accurately predict when the radio interference would be highest and when it would be lowest based on aspects between particular planets. And more remarkably the planet most often involved in interference was Saturn, and the aspects were what we would call hard aspects, squares and doppositions. This is good evidence of planetary influence, but not being an astrologer, Nelson used a heliocentric model. Still this is evidence of influence.

Similar evidence of influence on human beings is lacking. The only evidence I know of is Gaquelin, and even that, though admirable in its attempts, is, at best, sketchy. Mars did't make those people in his study sports champions, it was an indicator in some charts, and frankly, not very many compared to the whole.

Mars doesn't cause my anger. Mars IS my anger. Saturn doesn't cause my limitations; Saturn IS my limitations. The chart is not a list of causes or a list of things that cause; it is a list of representations that I can use to order my life in a favorable way.

--------------------------

Deb:

I think what Tom is saying is that although transiting aspects will have a general effect for everyone, in order to assess a significant effect in mundane astrology, you have to locate places that are sensitive to the influence. (Forgive me if I’m assuming wrongly Tom).
So you know, for example, that I’m very struck with the resonance of this prominent and powerful Mars (I may differ from Tom here is seeing its bright visual appearance and striking redness as being one direct result of it being so close to the earth, and I do consider its perihelion condition as being a strengthening influence), but the signature of that planet’s condition will fall upon people and places that have important angles or planets touched by it. And then, its apparent effect will be tempered by the conditions prevalent in that chart.
What I also think is worth noting about this Mars is that it is bouncing about between two malefics. Because I do consider it having a valid significance worthy of consideration, you could say that I’d see Mars’s contacts between Saturn and Uranus as offering a good planetary pattern worthy of exploration for mundane matters. Look for significant points or dates of contact and check through charts of prominent people, places or institutions that will be strongly affected by it – by strongly I mean a very significant contact to a major point, such as the midheaven or luminary.
I may be differing from Tom’s views but I think I understand the point he is making. I might be biased because Mars blasted off in my own chart just as it turned retrograde over my midheaven, and Saturn is close to my ascendant, so I’m personally very sensitive to its effects, and I am noticing them everywhere at the moment.

----------------------

Graelhaven:

the difference between a radiowave a microwave a light wave a sound wave, etc it the length of the wave, electromagnetic current is measured in waves and absolutely disturbes any other wavelengths in its path. this is an experiment done in most first year chem classes at university these days.

I still say all things are effected by the stress of gravity and pull of the planets. I also think you ignore the evidence before your very eyes on the subject, but I can agree to disagree if you'd like.

--------------------------

Tom:

We are obviously affected by gravity, but I don't know of any scientists that thinks humans are affected astrologically by any of these phenomenon or of any eveidence that this is so. I don't believe that to be the case. And the evidence that suggests such is sketchy and frail at best.

-----------------------------

Sue:

I can't help but feel that we go wrong when we start to separate events such as the Mars perihelion and classify these things as an astronomical event but not an astrological event. I feel that it was one of the saddest things that happened to either when they were torn apart and pitted against each other. When I walk out into my garden at night and see Mars so evident in the sky it does affect me. I feel very affected by Mars type issues at the moment. Maybe it isn't specifically an astrological event in the narrow sense of the word but I'm not sure I want to separate it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deb
Administrator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dragging out this old post ....

Tom wrote:

Quote:
The Mars phenomenon is interesting, but I don't see the connection of perihelion to astrology. To the best of my knowledge it isn't mentioned in any of the Western traditional texts, or modern texts for that matter.


And it's been bothering me ever since Smile

Anyway I found this in Culpeper last night and I thought it would be worth reproducing because references on this matter are scarce.

42. It is very bad when SATURN is in his Perigaeon, or near it, if the disease come of retention.
43. Judge the like by MARS, if the disease be a Feaver or proceed of choler; and here you have another instructor to teach you knowledge; the nearer a Planet is to earth, the more stoutly will he maintain and encrease the humours he governs.

N. Culpeper, Astrological Judgement of Diseases from the Decumbiture of the Sick, 1655, Chap XIV, part III.

Not that Dr. Reason didn't tell me that all along Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane Astrology & World Events All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated