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AP - *** Arnold Schwarzenegger - the Governator?
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:43 am    Post subject: AP - *** Arnold Schwarzenegger - the Governator? Reply with quote

8 Aug 2003

Tom:


Since he is all the rage on radio and TV in the US these past two days, I thought we might like to take a look at his natal chart: July 30, 1947; 4:10 AM Graz, Austria -2:00 hrs, 47N05 15 E 27.
19 Cancer rises.

Arnold achieved one name status. Mention his first name only, and people know who you're talking about. He wants to become governor of California (so do lots of others), I wonder if his chart can tell us if he will make it. He is considered, as of this writing, something of a front runner in a crowded field including the current governor who was re-elected only last November.

I'll toss in a couple of things to get the ball rolling. His ASC ruler, the Moon is in sorry shape in Capricorn in the 6th, and receives no help from its main dispositors (Saturn, Mars) nor does it make any tight aspects at all. The Moon is a bit rudderless, which seems odd for such a driven man. Where does his drive come from?

Mecury is conjunct the ASC and in a partile trine to Jupiter in the 5th. Traditionally Jupiter rules the Pisces MC. Venus is 1 is the exaltation ruler of the MC, so there are connections between the ASC and the MC, which is the house of honors. But is there anything here that signifies success in politics?

Finally, take a look at his solar return for 2003. Mercury, Moon, Sun, Venus, and Jupiter are all in Leo and, if we cast the SR for Los Angeles (I don't know where he lives), they are all in the 12th house of self-undoing and Regulus is on the ASC! He is certainly brimming with confidence this year.

Please post your thoughts.

---------------------------------

Sue:

We have been inundated with the Californian elections here as well. Of course, Arnie is generating a lot of interest.

Looking at his Solar Return chart, it seems that there is something that he isn’t telling us. Mercury in the 12th suggests a time to not be outspoken. It’s a time for withholding information. But it is right on the Ascendant and therefore will progress into the 1st house.

The emphasis on the 12th house (Solar Return chart) is unusual for someone contemplating being more in the public eye. Having a strong 12th house myself (including my Sun) I hate the thought of being in the public eye. When I saw that though, I recalled that Tony Blair has a very strong 12th house. I think he has 5 planets there. And from memory, he has a very large 12th house, nearly 70 degrees. Of course, with the way things are going for Tony at the moment, he may well be a victim of his own undoing.

I also noticed that Algol is conjunct the North Node and fairly close (assuming Los Angeles is the right location) to the MC. This is most likely an obsession with him. He perhaps sees it as his destiny. But it could also be his undoing. I think Tom is right when he says that Arnie is brimming with confidence. Jupiter is in the 5th natally conjunct the Arabic Part of nobility and honour as well as ruling the 10th house. There is certainly a strong indication that he is destined to be well known. But the 5th house is the house of pleasure among other things. He is seen as an entertainer. Will people be able to make the shift and see him as a serious politician? I know it happens quite a bit in the US where former ‘personalities’ become politicians.

I’m not entirely convinced that his vacillating about running wasn’t part of a game. I would say he made his mind up a long time ago. As Tom pointed out, he has Mercury on the Ascendant natally but it is disposited by a weak Moon. Putting aside the fact that English is not his first language, he might have a lot of difficulty being able to effectively communicate his ideas. With Mercury conjuncting Jupiter, it might be a case of talking a lot but saying little. He also has transiting Neptune opposing natal Saturn at the moment. He might not be as confident as he appears. Maybe he really did have a hard time making up his mind.

Media reports here have said his wife is less than happy with his choice (and who can blame her given the history of the men in her family). With Mars and Uranus in the 7th house of the Solar Return chart, this could be a problem if it isn’t resolved quickly. Pluto in the 4th (in a wide square with Mars) doesn’t look good for his home life. Transiting Pluto is about to enter into an opposition with natal Mars towards the end of the year, suggesting a struggle to get what he wants. It doesn’t appear to be all smooth sailing for him. Many of his transits and his Solar Return chart suggest that this is a time for going inward rather than looking for public advancement.

I had a look at his current Mars Return chart just out of curiosity (even though I don’t really use it much) and all seven of the traditional planets are within about 50 degrees, centred around the 1st house. Neptune is on the MC.

I don’t know a lot about the political situation in California (I get most of my US political info from watching the PBS Newshour with Jim Lehrer (?) ) but I understand that it is one of the more liberal states. Is this correct? This morning’s paper said that the Democrats have found someone else to run instead of the incumbent, whom I believe isn’t even popular within his own party. The new guy called himself the Danny DeVito to Arnie. Are people likely to vote for a Republican simply because he his Arnie or will politics win out in the end?

----------------------------------

Tom:

Hi Sue,

Great post. I'll hae more to say on this later, but a couple of quick points. Yes, California is a liberal state, but that does not make it a predictable state. Californians elected Ronald Reagan twice by landslides, the first time he defeated an incumbant. Reagan served two terms and either stepped down or was no longer eligible under Calirofnia Law, I forget which, and despite his popularity, California replaced him with the liberal Jerry Brown, son of the man Reagan defeated 8 years earlier. As one political journal in the US says frequently, "We will never understand California."

Secondly, it will only take a plurality to win. WIth so many candidates it is possible that the winner might have as little as 15% of the votes cast. The law has no "run-off" provision. So it is not unlikely that any of the candidates would win -- even Larry Flynt who engagingly described himself as "A smut peddler who cares."

In traditional astrology, Arnold's Mercury both in his nativity, and in his solar return (again assuming Los Angeles) would be in the first house. You raise a fascinating point however. Everything in the 12th is not what we would expect for a man seeking high political office. There are ways out, however. George Bush has the Sun in Cancer the 12th, but the Sun's dispositors, Moon and Jupiter, aspect the Sun. Arnold's Sun is in his own sign, there is no exaltation ruler, and the triplicity ruler is the Sun himself. If Arnold lives within about 500 miles of Los Angeles, the chart isn't going to change much. I want to have a closer look at that SR.

---------------------------

Sue:

Ah, yes. The 5 degree rule. I must admit that I don't take as much notice of it when doing natal as I do with horary. Of course, Mercury in the 1st is a different ball game. This would make him a little more willing to be forthcoming with his opinions. Unfortunately, the only opinions he is likely to be interested in are his own. He also has Mercury opposing Uranus in the SR chart.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there two steps to this possible election? Doesn't the recall have to succeed first? I understand that the chances of it failing are pretty slim but it certainly isn't a forgone conclusion that we are speaking of Governor Arnie just yet.
I guess the most important thing to do would be to look at what is going on in his chart. The SR is a great place to start as Tom has already pointed out, and see if there are any major shifts in direction coming up for him. I notice he has transiting Uranus square his North Node suggesting a possible change in direction.
But that Sun in the 12th of the SR chart still interests me. How does it find a way out of there if it is in its own sign and triplicity, except that the Sun also rules the 1st house?
Another indication that he shouldn't be starting new projects is that Saturn is transiting his natal 12th house. It will cross the Ascendant around August of next year. As Robert Hand says about Saturn transiting the 12th 'It is the ending of a cycle not the beginning of one'.

-----------------------------------

Tom:

Good Afternoon Sue,

Well it's afternoon on this side of the globe anyway.

>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there two steps to this possible election? Doesn't the recall have to succeed first? I understand that the chances of it failing are pretty slim but it certainly isn't a forgone conclusion that we are speaking of Governor Arnie just yet. <<


The voters will vote on two issues on Oct 7. The first is the question of whether or not the current governor, Gray Davis, should be recalled. If a majority of voters say, "no," then Davis remains the governor, regardless of the outcome of any vote for an other candidates. The voters then are asked whom should be governor if Davis is recalled. Whichever candidate has the most votes would then become governor should Davis be recalled. Given the number of candidates, serious and otherwise, it is estimated that one would only need about 15% of the votes cast in order to win, that of course is true if the votes are more or less evenly spread, which is unlikely.

>>But that Sun in the 12th of the SR chart still interests me. How does it find a way out of there if it is in its own sign and triplicity, except that the Sun also rules the 1st house?<<

I overlooked the fact that the Sun is the ASC ruler, that is a way out, but with the Moon and Venus combust, particularly with Venus the MC ruler in the SR chart, I'm not real comfortable with this chart. He may win, but I have to wonder if this is a case of "Be careful what you ask for, you may get it." California has enormous financial problems right now.

The other thing to keep in mind is that another meaning of the 12th house is enemies (I don't have a lot of faith in the idea of secret enemies in the 12th and open enemies in the 7th). Any politician has lots of them, but Arnold has attracted some pretty vicious ones right off the bat.

>>Another indication that he shouldn't be starting new projects is that Saturn is transiting his natal 12th house. It will cross the Ascendant around August of next year. As Robert Hand says about Saturn transiting the 12th 'It is the ending of a cycle not the beginning of one'.<<

Robert Hand uses whole sign houses. He would say that Saturn is transiting Arnold's 1st house not his 12th. However, again using wholes signs, Saturn rules the 8th, not the 9th.

Whole sign houses would also put the natal Moon in the 7th, making it accidentally dignified and strong, which makes more sense than Arnold's ASC ruler being in detriment, virtually unaspected, and in the 6th. His personality is too strong for that. Finally whole sign houses would put the MC in the 9th house of politics. This, however shows potential. It is not a guarantee of success in the field.

I started working on the SR, and lunar return yesterday, but haven't completed the work yet. There is a gold mine of information in these charts.

------------------------------

Sue:

This raises an interesting question. Given the number of house systems and methods used by astrologers around the globe, should we all come up with the same answers to the same questions? Assuming that anyone other than us is asking the question about Arnie's political aspirations, should we all come up with pretty much the same answer regardless of the methods used?
I read an article by Stephanie Clement yesterday in which she used Solar Arc directed methods among others. She also cast a horary, which I'm not sure is completely valid given that several other horary charts must be hanging around also. Basically, what she came up with is a lot of confusion. She seems to think that someone will ask for a recount. She also says that this foray into politics will only increase Arnie's popularity. It's certainly generated a lot of interest. It has been in our papers every day recently.

----------------------------

Graelhaven:

The Californian Speaks....

the recall measure and the new race are all on the same ballot. the one thing I object to is that the Govenor cannot be on the ballot. technically he could be recalled and still have enough of the popular to be re-installed as govenor. (especially with the number of people on this stupid ballot)

Arnie has been extremely active in California politics for many years. One of his hidden agendas (not so hidden really) is after school care for children. He is really concerned with child welfare, always has been. In demolition man, a futuristic movie made a few years back, Stallone is shocked to find that the constitution of the US was changed while he was in Cryogenic sleep so that ARnie could be elected PResident... I believe its mentioned in a few other movies as well. He has long had political amibitions.

it does not surprise me that he has lots of 12th house activity. he seems the type to be involved in the underpinings of how things happen. It would also not surprise me to learn he had helped monetarily fund the recall effort, which I object to...why? because 1) the state is in such economic condition that the millions that this is costing is far more damaging, that the twits, exuse me the govenors, idiodic budget issues. and secondly, you deal with such issues by having your representatives over ride the govenor, not by blowing what little cash you have on a recall effort which can only lead to further debt.

incidently, while Reagan was govenor, there was a similar recall initiative that failed. reagan staved off a recall by installing a large tax to cover the deficit. Similarly, if twit would stop the car tax initiative and instigate a temporary one cent sales tax, I believe he also could stave off the recall. I'm afraid his ego wont let him however and he'll get what he has asked for, and we'll end up with ARnie as govenor... sigh... I really dont want Arnie as Govenor, He's a nice person I'm sure, and has lots of good qualities, but I really dont want him in political office. something just doesn't feel right about that...

-----------------------------------

Graelhaven:

Also Regan started out as a Democrat, changed affiliations when he got into political arena. He was always 'via media' and I think that is why he was elected, he pulled enough sway in both of the main parties because he wasn't too radical in either direction. when faced with an election, Californians seem to prefer someone who is not too far out in either direction.

for instance, Pete Wilson...middle of the road republican, Bob Lagomarsino, also a middle of the road republican... both very popular in california. Jerry Brown seems very left to someone who doesn't live here, however, he studied to be a jesuit as a youngster and some of his views are very conservative.

Yup, we love moonbeam, and I'd certainly vote for him again. he cares about decent living issues, which makes him very interested in how decisions effect the populace. He never would have pulled the stupid car tax initiative because he knows that the one thing you dont do in California is mess with the voters vehicles... this is definitely the state of the driver.... =)

And yes, the vehicle registration increase and the bond issue is what is killing our stupid Govenor. sometiems he thinks too much like an Accountant when an economist is needed.

------------------------------------

Sue:

I can't say that I know much about US politics but I'm not sure I understand how someone can be recalled once they have been voted in. Unless it is for gross dishonesty or some such thing. But looking at the astrology of it, it also doesn't surprise me to see that Arnie has been working behind the scenes a lot. It will be interesting to see whether he comes more into the public if he is elected, and it seems he will be.

-------------------------------

Tom:

Recall initiatives vary from state to state. Some states don't have them. They are attempted from time to time, but none have succeeded anywhere in the US since I think 1926.

Gray Davis was leagally elected. No one has suggested otherwise. From what I've heard the main reason for the recall is that he allegedly lied about the seriousness of the budget gap. $38 billion is nothing to sneeze at at the state level.

The recall movement is legal, too, and they rarely if ever have requirements other than a whole bunch of people. justified or otherwise, are ticked off.

You might want to check out Ronald Reagan's chart. I was dong some work for an article comparing his chart to FDRs not for similarities so much but for an answer. Reagan and Roosevelt made more profound changes in American life than any Presidents in the 20th century. What is in the charts to indicate this?

Reagan did start out as a New Deal Democrat, but switched parties in the 1960s. I find the charts of both men to be endlessly fascinating, and perhaps I can get something on here about them in the future. The Moon is key in both.

------------------------------------

Sue:

I will check out those charts you mentioned. Interestingly, when I went into Solar Fire to find them, they didn't have either of them but had both chart for the wives. Reagan's and FDR's were in AstroDatabank though so I was able to get them. FDR's is immediately quite interesting.
Will get back to you on it.

-----------------------------------

Graelhaven:

um, actually, all you have to do to recall someone in this state (Ca) is to get enough legal voters signatures together...as I said. the populace is far more pised off about the vehicle registration nonsense (man you ought to see the petitions on that one) and the fact that California state bonds are almost at junkbond status right now. that has people really pissed. I'm afraid that news media really dont give much of a relevant picture of what is going on. AS to Roosevelts, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with you on this subject. Teddy Roosevelts anti trust laws, and anti monopoly laws are the only reason we have a real middle class in America. FDR, merely helped us survive the depression. he didn't really do anything to get the country back on its feet, that was pretty much WWII.

Though Bush and his cronies are doing their best to destroy the anti trust laws and bring us into being just another third world economy, the utter dessecration of the deficit will tie this country up for decades... I never thought someone could do this much damage in four years. I just hope Kerry can oust him in 2004... okay my tuppence on the subject...

----------------------------

Tom:

Hi Sue,

I have both charts at home. I'll be home Wednesday night EST. If I haven't sent them to you and/or posted the birth data by the weekend, send me a nasty e-mail.

I was asked to write an article on Presidents for an astrology website way back in January. The website was for absolute beginners, and I couldn't say what I wanted to at that level. It isn't that what I was writing was all that advanced, it just wasn't beginner's stuff. Before I could rewrite it, things changed and they changed their minds. I kept at it because I found the charts so interesting, and in some subtle ways these men were very much alike. However, their backgrounds couldn't have been more different. Roosevelt was born to a wealthy well respected family; Reagan might have come from the most humble origins since Lincoln. Both had a way with the public

The whole time I was working on this, I kept hearing the voice of my late father. He thought of himself as a student of politics, but actually he was a student of politicians. He kept saying to me: "You're not old enough to remember, but forget the politics, Tom, I'm telling you this guy (Reagan) is just like Roosevelt." I think the old man was right.

If I forget, remind me and I'll get the data to you.

--------------------------------

Graelhaven:

FDR and Reagan both had/have very charismatic personalities. I met Reagan briefly in June of 96 (?) While Nancy was in the hospital, he was watching a volleyball game on the beach in santa monica with a couple of his agents present.

He is a very nice person, I'd still never vote for him, I disagree with his politics, but he and fdr are definitely charismatic people.

I would like to know what specific things you think Reagan did for the US?

what I remember from his terms are that, before he was in office there were 6 homeless guys in town, we knew them all by name and they were pretty harmless, after he closed down the mental facility by taking away the funding, there were countless homeless people on the street, murders and robberies increased and unemployment went up... oh but he disguised that by changing the way they estimated the number of unemployed.(ceased to count military and people who were no longer eligible to receive benefits,etc) and the country went into a pretty ugly recession, which he also tried to disguise by altering the way other numbers were generated....perhaps my community was a bit more impacted than others by his actions, but I'm afraid I cant agree with you that he was a wonderful president.

The reagan library is a short distance from my home, I've been priveliged to see Nixon, Carter, Bush Sr and Clinton at ceremonies here in Ventura County, but so far the only one I've met in person was Reagan. This is a point where the great tend to gather. not certain quite why. Also meet a great deal of entertainment industry people in this location.

-----------------------------------

Sue:

Tom, going back to our discussion of Arnie's 12th house, I saw an interview with him and his campaign manager on PBS Newshour last night where they were saying that they are not prepared to release any of their policies or views just yet and will do it when they are good and ready. They have been accused of being secretive. Sounds a little 12th house to me. One of the complaints from a 'minor' candidate was that Arnie was getting all of the attention but saying nothing whereas other candidates want to talk about policies. The Ascendant of the SR chart is interesting in that it is in Leo and so will project a lot of warmth, friendliness etc. But with most of the Leo planets in the 12th, the real truth is probably somewhat different. He seems to be using his SR Leo Ascendant to project a great image while hiding the truth. And contrary to what Stephanie Clement says about his wife now being happy to support him, she looked anything but happy to me.
Maybe that Jupiter in the 12th is giving him some unreal expectations.

-----------------------------

Graelhaven:

Mercury Conjunct Ascendent, lots of Public communication... I'm actually surprised that so many of his planets are in the bottom of his chart? I would have expected to see more MC activities....

-------------------------------

Tom:

Beth,

What I said was FDR and Reagan ushered in more changes than any Presidents in the 20th Century. What one might think of those changes is a political not an astrological issue so I decline comment of what I think he did "for" the country, ditto, FDR. I have opinons on both. This is not the place for them.

I do stand by the statement however. In the briefest of possible terms, FDR ushered in the era of big government and the idea that government could and should be used to "solve" social issues and problems. Government agencies whose existance we take for granted were new and in some views dangerous ideas in 1932.

The New Deal gave way to the Great Society of LBJ, and Reagan, when accused of trying to undo the New Deal once said,"I'm not trying to undo the New Deal; I'm trying to undo the 'Great Society.' " He didn't of course, but his restructuring of the tax code has been modified, but no one would seriously want to go back to a 70% top marginal rate and the vast number of levels of the tax code in effect in 1980. In fact, not even the furthest left of Democrats has suggested such a thing.

There are many other things that could be said about both, but that takes us far afield. These are both charismatic, influential men and it should show in their charts.

-----------------------------

Graelhaven:

aaaahhhh, I see where you are going now.

When looking at Reagans chart you might recall what his biographer said of him, I think it reflects his chart well. "Reagan, was the leading follower of a conservative rebellion." and I'm sorry to say I forget the mans name. will search for it.

As to FDR, I would like to see that chart and perhaps Eleanors with it. I've always thought she was the brains, and he the mouth... sorta reminds me of Bill and Hill..ary.

--------------------------------

Tom:

>>"Reagan, was the leading follower of a conservative rebellion."<<

Whoever said that needs to take another look at history. The man won 49 states in his re-election bid; that was the most lopsided victory since George Washington was elected unanimously. He won about 46 the first time. In case that guy doesn't know it, there are but 50 states. Since the Republicans were the minority party, he must have persuaded a lot of Democrats to vote for him. These are hardly the marks of a follower.

Who led it, if not Reagan? Let me guess: some vast conspiracy composed of the CIA, FBI, military industrial complex, rich Republicans and the 475 people who shot JFK, and then couldn't beat Bill Clinton who got 43% of the vote his first attempt. Is that close?

Richard Reeves, a liberal Democrat pundit wrote in his column once about a list of prominent leaders that was composed by a highly partisan group led by (who else?) Arthur Slessinger (spelled wrong I know). Reeves was complaining that Reagan was left off the list. Here is what I recall of the column. It is not exact: "Reagan took the country where he wanted to go whether we liked it or not, and believe me, I didn't like it. He put through sweeping tax reforms with his party in the minority, and won two landslide elections. ... I may not like him, but I think I recognize a leader when I see one."

Ronald Wilson Reagan: Feb 2, 1911, 4:16 AM, Tampico, IL 41 N 38, 89 W 47 AA rating from birth certificate

Nancy Reagan: July 6, 1921 1:18 PM NY, NY 40 N 46 73 W 59 A rating

Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Jan 31, 1882, 1:40 56 AM, New Hyde Park, NY 41 N 48 73 W 50 1:40: 56 NOTE THIS IS GMT. This data is not rated, but it is accepted. As sure as I wrote this, someone out there has different data and they are sure it's right, too.

Eleanor Roosevelt, Oct 11, 1884, 11:00 AM NYC 40 N 46 73 W 59 Rated AA

---------------------------------

Sue:

I have similar data for FDR. Lois Rodden gives 8:45pm EST (pretty close to Jan 31st 1:41 ish GMT) She gives this an AA rating so I think we can safely count on the chart to be fairly accurate.

--------------------------------------

Graelhaven:

just to give you a gigle, Eleanors Middle name is Kermit. it is a popular name in the Roosevelt family. thanks for the time data, am interested to look at this.

-----------------------------------------

Sue:

I’ve been thinking about why Arnie is so far ahead in the opinion polls and why people are generally so willing to vote for ‘celebrities’. But it clearly isn’t about who they are as much as what they represent. Arnie, and others like him, have been mythologised to take on the role of the hero. I don’t see it so much as an inability to separate fact from fiction rather than subconsciously embracing the myth. Joseph Campbell, in one of his books, (I think it was ‘The Power of Myth’) gave an example of a court judge. When everyone in the room stands up as the judge enters they are not standing up for him/her but for everything that the position represents. Most movies are simply the retelling of ancient myths in a way that makes sense to modern society. Because he has become so successful, Arnie has become the embodiment of the hero myth. It’s not surprising that Californians want someone like him to take huge risks and rescue them from the mess that they have been told they are in. Dennis Elwell gives examples of actors who have taken on roles that correspond with aspects of their natal chart. Arnie has Mars and Uranus conjunct in his natal chart so he is able to embody that expression of risk taking outside the realm of movies. One possible expression of this aspect is not unlike many of the characters he has played such as Terminator and the person in First Blood (haven’t actually watched any of these). Even though he has played very different characters such as in Twins or Kindergarten Cop, it is the Terminator type rolls for which he is most identified. Interestingly, in his SR chart for this year, Mars went retrograde just a few hours earlier that day. It is in a wide conjunction (9 degrees) to Uranus.
I read in the paper this morning that Rob Lowe has become his PR person or some such position, even though Rob is a Democrat. Another example of life imitating art.

-------------------------------------

Deb:

I haven’t had time to follow this post properly but this reminds me of a comment I read recently in my newspaper which was a cynical remark about Arnie not having any agendas, and that not really being a problem because the main talent you need to be a successful politician is the ability to act.

---------------------------------------

Tom:

I like Sue's take on the hero coming to the rescue. Arnold is imagined to fit that bill because of the roles he is best known for. The media focus, so far, is on Arnold's lack of experience, which is pretty funny since it was the experienced politicans on whose watch the current mess was created. Maybe some Californians want Conan the Barbarian to "clean house" as he keeps saying, for just that reason.

I don't know that any other candidate is being pressed for an agenda like Arnold is. What is Lt Governor Cruz' agenda? More of the same? That must be appealing.

I wish we had Governor Gray Davis' birth time, but in lieu of that we do have a date and place. Gray Davis b. December 26, 1942 in New York City. I cast a noon chart for his public life and took note of the part of resignation or dismissal (Saturn + Jupiter - Sun). The beauty of this part is that we can pinpoint it with great accuracy without a timed chart. The negative is we don't know what house it falls in without a timed chart.

This one falls in Davis 10th in the Noon chart- 25 Sagittarius 06. If I were him, I wouldn't want it there. It's dispositor is Jupiter and if we superimpose a chart for the closing of the polls on Oct 9 on this noon chart, Jupiter has just set.

The part of RD in the election night chart is at 5 Gemini trine its dispositor Mercury who rules the noon chart fourth house of endings. It doesn't look good for the governor, but that doesn't make Arnold the winner, either. Davis could resign thereby "bequething" the position to his Lt Governor. Cruz could win outright, or a dark horse candidate, could come from behind.

Lots of time left for this to play out.

------------------------------------------

Sue:

Quote:
Davis could resign thereby "bequething" the position to his Lt Governor. Cruz could win outright, or a dark horse candidate, could come from behind.



Tom, is this possible? Can Davis simply resign now thereby allowing Cruz to automatically become Governor without an election? This would make more sense to me as far as the Democrats are concerned. It would certainly frustrate the Republican effort. Don't suppose anyone has Cruz's birth details. Maybe we should be looking at his data rather than that of Davis since it appears to be a forgone conclusion that he is out.

----------------------------

Tom:

First let me say loud and clear, I am no expert on California law. However, this idea has been floating around and is generally considered to be legal. After all, if the man died before the election date, the whole thing would be called off, why not if he resigns?

However, on the other side, why then, if this were the plan would Cruz even be in the race? The current wisdom is that Cruz is in the race so the Democrats have a viable candiate on the ballot should Davis be recalled. This makes perfect sense. Why bother if Davis is planing on resigning if he sees he has only a small chance?

The last I read, the polls show a fairly slim majority of prospective voters are planning on voting to oust Davis. That could all change in a hurry once all the glitz has worn off and people begin to realize this is an important election that has serious consequences. Right now the oddballs are getting a lot of press. I don't think that will last as election day draws near.

-----------------------------

Graelhaven:

with more than a hundred people on the ballot, it is awefully ugly. One of my favorite comedian's os even on the ballot. =) but I wouldnt' vote for him... sheesh!

------------------------------

Deb:

I’ve just returned from the Faculty Summer School and whilst I was there Diane Marcus-Page mentioned that she was taking an interest in this and found it very significant that Arnie’s relocated natal chart places Jupiter on the MC for California.

-----------------------------

Graelhaven:

tomorrow is the election! my daughter is planning on driving 60 miles home to vote for Arnie, she wasn't going to bother, but the last minute mud slinging has her very anoid. I found that interesting. Poll in donut shop this morning was anti-arnie, but not for anyone one else, I keep thinking arnie by win the election but not be govenor because they may just vote no on recall and yes on arnie making it a mute point. ahhh well, just thought I'd put it out there for some thought!

----------------------------------

Tom:

It's too close to call; it's too close to call; it's ....... Arnold by a landlslide.

Arnold receveived almost 50% of the vote in a field of over 100 (In the last general election Davis received less than 50% of the vote). He beat his closet rival by about 2-1. The state has a lot more Democrats registered than Republicans and there was a heavy turnout.

Yessiree the polls really got this one right; to wit: they said it was close, that Arnold was fading, that there would be a light turnout, that a heavy turnout would favor the Democrats and that voters were leaning towards keeping Davis. It takes genuine effort to get it all this wrong. And they make fun of astrologers for making incorrect predictions.

-----------------------------

LindaR:

I understand that California has the 6th largest economy in the world. This makes this man a very powerful person with all that money to spend! He could probably could buy John Howard and the rest of Australia with a bit of New Zealand for bonus....so long as he then takes them back to San Francisco........

---------------------------------

Graelhaven:

5th largest economy in the world.

As my mother says Californians are fiscally conservative and socially liberal, that pretty much describes Arnie doesn't it?

did you see all those Kennedy's ( I mean Shreivers) standing behind Arnie on the stage when he gave his acceptance speach? (Maria Shreivers mother is JFK's sister)Californians traditionally like middle of the road candidates, but will favor the liberal over the conservative on social issues. Arnie, believe it or not, represents a typical California attitude. So while I didn't vote for him... shhhhh, I do understand why he won.

------------------------------

Graelhaven:

Well I have to say he is stepping up to the plate in a manner to make many a republican groan,(that generally makes me happy) he is a lot smarter than you might think, he's putting together a multi- partisan group. He seems to understand California in anycase. One of Californias biggest problems is that we dont have enough Middle ground in the political arena. Yup, I smell a strong kennedy influence. JFK stacked his cabinet with people who were extremely diverse and argued all the time. he said it helped him to see all sides of an issue before making a decision... He has also pulled together some interesting resources to dissect the California budget. Not certain how happy I'll be in the end, but one must admit he's performing in an interesting manner.

now for a political figure, do you cast the career chart for the time they accept? from the time the final count is ratified? what is the appropriate way to cast the chart? Maybe from the time they announce they are a candidate? appreciate an answer to this question.

---------------------------

Tom:

>>He seems to understand California in anycase.<<

Making him unique in all the world. Sorry, couldn't resist

>>One of California's biggest problems is that we dont have enough Middle ground in the political arena.<<

Lie in the middle of the road long enough and you'll get run over.

>>Yup, I smell a strong kennedy influence. JFK stacked his cabinet with people who were extremely diverse and argued all the time.<<

This is pretty much a myth. He did have cocktail parties that might include William F. Buckley Jr. and Norman Mailer, but I don't recall anyone in his cabinet that wasn't left of center Keep in mind the contemporary left is a lot further out than a liberal was then. JFK was a strong anti-communist. This sort of thing is passe' with most contemporary liberals. Kennedy himself was probably the most conservative of his circle. He was heavily influenced by his father who told Kennedy speechwriter Arthur Schlessinger that his speeches were :"much too liberal for me."

It is usually a good idea to take every goody-two-shoes thing we hear about JFK with great skepticism. He wasn't the worst President we ever had, but he was a long way from his image, which was created by naive academics after his death with a Hollywood imagination. The reason he was in Dallas on Nov 22 1963, was to try to convince Texas Democrats to support him in the following year's election. He wasn't even assured of the nomination despite his being the incumbant.

>>he said it helped him to see all sides of an issue before making a decision<<

Gag me with a spoon. If the President of the US doesn't have his mind made up about the issues before his inauguration, there is something seriously wrong. Henry Kissenger said Washington was not the place for on the job training. This is especially true of the Presidency.

>>... He has also pulled together some interesting resources to dissect the California budget.<<

He's calling for an independent audit. This is a good idea. He can use it to deflect blame down the road.

>>Not certain how happy I'll be in the end, but one must admit he's performing in an interesting manner. <<

Arnold will have the shortest "Honeymoon Period" of any politician in history. The Dems are already threatening a recall and he hasn't been sworn in yet.

Actually, he's making the same mistakes all moderate Republicans make. He thinks people like Susan Estridge are there to help. Arnold is being naive. This is political hardball, not touch football.

>>now for a political figure, do you cast the career chart for the time they accept? from the time the final count is ratified? what is the appropriate way to cast the chart? Maybe from the time they announce they are a candidate? appreciate an answer to this question.<<

For his administration we would cast the chart for the time of his swearing in. In many cases this presents difficulties, e.g., The Sun in every US Presidential Administration is in the same place as are the houses. This one will be different as the election is not part of the regular political process. Find the projected swearing in date and time (probably noon in Sacramento), and we'll take a peek.

I would use the announcement on the "Tonight" show for the beginning of his political career. These two might make an interesting composite chart.

-------------------------------

Graelhaven:

LOL, gee tom tell me how you really feel.

Kennedy's death did more for his reputation than anything else ever did. Johnson used it to drive home many of his ideas that would NEVER have made it through congress in his lifetime otherwise. HOWEVER, as I said to one of Bustamonte's cousins yesterday, just cause I dont like a man's politics doesn't mean I dont respect the fact that he (or she) has gotten where they have in the world.

And by the way California Democrats are NOT threatening to recall Davis, in anything but jest.(I can see someone who doesn't understand californians) if the Democrats hadn't VOTED for Arnie he would NOT be Govenor. Democrats out number Republicans in CA by like 3 to 1 (or some equally insane number)and they voted enmasse. Any member of the democratic party that got on Arnies case at this point would be commiting political suicide. IF they can get him in legal terms maybe,(ie, this sexual harrassment allegations or some such) but otherwise it would be insane. If the budget situation isn't fixed soon the entire US economy will be in deep shit. And yes, Ca economy is that important to the well being of the US. The case is that he is putting together a multi partisan group, that is extremely odd in current California politics. Pete Wilson, who is not my favorite, but who definitely is good with budget items and the last middle of the road govenor to be elected in CA., is behind Schwarzie boy, THAT is something to pay attention to. I'll see what I can find out about possible swearing in, las ti heard it would be at least the 25th before the vote can be ratified by the secretary of state, so possibly 25 or 26th of this Month. 26 is a Sunday so perhaps Monday the 27th at Noon?

----------------------------------

Tom:

>>LOL, gee tom tell me how you really feel.<<

I really feel that the Republicans should have their collective heads examined for going through with this thing. I agree with columnist George Will, the situation is so bad that it probably can't be fixed before the next general election, and the GOP shouldn't be anywhere around when it falls. Economies don't turn around at the drop of a hat. Republicans will be around, and they will get the blame whether it is their fault or not. No use crying over spilt milk I guess.

>>Kennedy's death did more for his reputation than anything else ever did. Johnson used it to drive home many of his ideas that would NEVER have made it through congress in his lifetime otherwise.<<

I don't know whether you mean Kennedy or Johnson when you say "his ideas," or what they were. If you're referring to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 a larger percentage of Republicans voted for it than Democrats, and it took Republican Everett Dirkson to bust the fillibuster led by Albert Gore Sr., father of the former VP. LBJ publicly thanked Dirkson for his efforts.

>>And by the way California Democrats are NOT threatening to recall Davis, in anything but jest.<<

Could have fooled me. A Democrat politician from CA named McDonnaugh I think, sounded awfully angry on the radio on Wednesday and stated quite clearly they were giving Arnold 100 days to make good on all his promises. My brother, a Californian, told me the same thing has been said by others and not in jest. Threatening a recall and producing one are two different things. 31 recalls have been attempted in California over the years. The Democrats tried it against Reagan twice and Pete Wilson 4 times. This is the first time it ever got as far as an election.

>> if the Democrats hadn't VOTED for Arnie he would NOT be Govenor.

Correct. When I say Democrats I mean the party professionals not the rank and file.

>>Democrats out number Republicans in CA by like 3 to 1 (or some equally insane number)and they voted enmasse. Any member of the democratic party that got on Arnies case at this point would be commiting political suicide.<<

Tell that to McDonnaugh

>>IF they can get him in legal terms maybe,(ie, this sexual harrassment allegations or some such)<<

The irony of this is rich.

>>but otherwise it would be insane. If the budget situation isn't fixed soon the entire US economy will be in deep shit.<<

And this is where it is heading regardless of who is governor. This is a rehash of NYC in the 60s and 70s, but on a larger scale. The formula runs this way: first you spend yourself broke, usually by buying votes. Then you raise taxes until the peasants revolt. Then you go to Washington DC and demand that the rest of the nation pay for your excesses on the grounds that you are unique and therefore deserve money from the pockets of people who live in Iowa. Then you howl with indignation when it is suggested that you cut back on your spending. It is all so essential, you see and besides if you don't give us the money, we'll go broke and that will fix you.

Keep this post for future reference.

>And yes, Ca economy is that important to the well being of the US.<<

I told you so.

>>The case is that he is putting together a multi partisan group, that is extremely odd in current California politics.<<

So odd that no Democrat has ever tried it, but nonetheless expect it from Republicans. It's a joke Beth. There is no Democrat or Republican way to cure excess spending. It just has to stop. The question is "where?" That is where the partisan politics comes to play. By putting the two groups together Arnie is asking for trouble as each group is there to protect their turf. He won. Who needs the Dems? Arnie is showing his naivete.


>>I'll see what I can find out about possible swearing in, las ti heard it would be at least the 25th before the vote can be ratified by the secretary of state, so possibly 25 or 26th of this Month. 26 is a Sunday so perhaps Monday the 27th at Noon?<<

I'll keep my eyes open, too .

As an FYI here is JFK's data May 29, 1917, 3:00 PM EST, Brookline, MAss. 71 W 07 42 N 20.

Noel Tyl made the astrological observation that JFK may never have wanted to become President. That he may well have been very happy to be a history professor. I don't know if the chart supports that or not. As time goes on, he does seem to be a more interesting man than at least I originally thought.

--------------------------------

Graelhaven:

Tom, the problem with California budget is NOT excessive spending. Ca had pleanty in reserve for the recession, Ever since the same problem occured with Gov. Reagan we had a planned back up.

DAVIS, wanted to mimic Bush and gave everyone a Tax refund, when we were "more than obviously" heading into a recession... Hence, He is the mastermind behind his own demise.
He also was advised against the car tax innitiative and ignored the advice. Ca has traditionally taken care of this type of problem with a SHORT TERM sales tax increase. And could quite effectively do that this time. it would probably mean a two step short term increase. One 6 month, one cent increase and then a check to see where the budget stood and either 6 more months at one cent or possible a little lower or higher depending on where the budget stood in that time period.

now having said all that, as soon as I find out when the swearing in will be I'll scream loudly so you can hear.

------------------------------

Tom:

>>Tom, the problem with California budget is NOT excessive spending. Ca had pleanty in reserve for the recession, Ever since the same problem occured with Gov. Reagan we had a planned back up.<<

When Reagan ran against Pat Brown's excessive spending the state budget was about $10 billion. It is now over $100 billion, and climbing. When the outgo exceeds the income, the problem is the outgo, no matter how little or how much the income is. It means you are spending beyond your means. Try telling a creditor it is all his fault that you don't have enough money to pay him. Try running a business by spending without the ability to pay for the expenses.

Many states, including my own banked on money coming in that didn't materialize due to a drop in revenues and increased costs where they weren't expected (9/11 costs for example). They spent it anyway, and then some. This is called in gambling circles, "betting on the come." I hope I don't sound hopelessly old fashioned when I say that state governments should have little in common with crap shooters. When a state government spends money in wild excess of income, it is not a small oversight, or bad luck, or someone else's fault. It is irresponsible.

New Jersey owes California, big. If it wasn't for your financial problems, we would have been in the news as our debt was a greater percentage of the total budget than yours was. You just have a bigger budget, and controls on taxation. In fact your debt is bigger than our budget, I think. We play shell games. Our governor is an approval rating of about 30%, but we don't have a recall provision in our consitution, sad to say, or he and Gray Davis might be sharing stories at the former governors who couldn't hold their jobs home.

I read a statistic once many years ago. If you take the national debt -- not the annual deficit, but the entire debt, and you add to that all debt of the 50 states, and add to that all the spending not yet spent but guaranteed by law (they do that too, you know), the estimated amount is greater than the estimated wealth of the world. They spent it all, and still say with a straight face that we must spend more, more, more. Sometimes it catches up with one or two of them.

I await your shouts.

---------------------------------------

Sue:

Just to interrupt for a minute with a little bit of astrology ....

One of the things I think Arnie is going to have to watch is his motives for what he does. He has made some big promises and has taken on a huge task. He has some very powerful aspects in both his natal chart and his current solar return chart. In his natal chart he has Jupiter square Pluto. In this year's SR chart he has Jupiter trine Pluto. He certainly has the power at the moment to carry through with what he promised. But if his motives are less than honourable he might find it all comes crashing down around him. Jupiter on the Ascendant of the SR chart probably has him thinking that he can do anything he wants. And with Mercury there he has the ability to convince others of this. I'm still bothered by the planets in the 12th house though. The Sun and Moon are both there and they are opposite Neptune. Is there stuff going on that we are simply not being made aware of? And with the Moon combust the Sun in the SR chart, it will be easy for Arnie to hide emotionally at the moment. By the sound of it there are already people plotting to have him removed one way or another. I've read several reports that the election of Arnie to governor will actually end up working against the Republicans, particularly during the presidential election. And I wonder how long it will be before there is a concerted shift towards changing the law that prevents overseas born people from running for the top job. Looking at his natal chart, I don't think Arnie will be satisfied with stopping at governor. He also has Mars conjunct Uranus in his natal chart, both unaspected by any other planets. In the current SR chart, Mars went retrograde that day and is in a wide (8-9 degree) conjunction with Uranus, also retrograde. Rash and unpredictable just like the characters he plays. Mars and Uranus are in the 7th and I have wondered from the beginning whether his marriage can survive this. I would say there will be a lot more mud raking and secrets coming to light in the not too distant future.
And going back to an earlier post about the mythology behind his movies and being seen as the saviour, people are going to expect miracles from this man. Unfortunately with the economy in the state it appears to be in, this is unlikely to happen. He is not going to save the world at the end of a two hour movie. His inability to make an immediate difference might just be seen as a huge failure.

And as for JFK perhaps being happy to be a history professor - I don't think so. One of the interesting things he had in his chart was an unaspected Pluto in the 9th house. He was born for this. Mythology abounds with examples of the saviour becoming the sacrifice which can be very Plutonian. JFK was the epitome of this.

-------------------------------------------

Graelhaven:

Tom,
The fact remains that CA had the funds until Davis "returned them" And the Economic indicators were read him before he did this assinine act.

Sue, I think the Jupiter Square Pluto shows Exactly that Arnie naively thinks he can just point his finger and shout a bit and everything will be fine. Which is not the case, but he will find out the hard way. The 2004 election is already showing a great distaste for bush in particular from this part of the Country. He had to cut his last visit to CA short because the Secret Service felt he wasn't particularly safe here. (imagine that) If Arnie was his Campaign manager Bush couldn't win Ca., IMO Ca Republicans dont even like him. I am not remotely unbiased on this agenda however, so my thoughts are probably not the best to look into...

As to the 2004 election I just hope we have a good strong candidate OTHER than bush that we can elect. I like Kerry, I'm thinking Kerry and Clark is alliterative and would be a PR managers dream to promote against Bush as both of them have actually fought wars as opposed to cowering behind a chair and sending others to do so. Our Veterans affairs division also needs a great deal of fixing, it has been woefully neglected and Bush just cut their benefits again. Now that is Brilliant, yes go fight and die for me and do my dirty work and I'll reward you by spitting in your face. cretin! (told you I wasnt unbiased on this issue) okay now that I'm way off topic ...
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AP - This is an archived post, but may still be responded to.
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graelhaven



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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:21 pm    Post subject: Inaugeration Reply with quote

date has been set for November 17th.

anyone up for mundane election charts!

MissB
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:01 pm    Post subject: Date and TIME set, NOT NOON Reply with quote

Allegedly the inaugeration will occur 11 am PST on the steps of the California Capitol Building in Sacramento CA on Monday November 17, 2003..

that's the latest.

Beth
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not an easy chart. It may well be an accurate representation of the difficulties the new governor will face. The second house has Pisces on the cusp and holds the MC ruler, Mars -- how appropriate for this governor. The second shows the states resources, and it's ruler, Jupiter is in detriment in the 8th house. No surprise as the California economy was the main issue. That Jupiter is in the house of other people's money isn't too surprising either. Iti s OPM that will get the state back in good fiscal shape, but the spending will have to be curtailed, and that may be the Jupiter in detriment.

Americans are, for te most part economically illiterate. We tend to find no inconsistancy at all in bemoaning high taxes, and wasteful spending while voting for or expecting the government to provide more and more of our needs and desires. Ya can't have it both ways. Califonia can solve its problems easily enough by making huge spending cuts. After all the money isn't there, but each politician will want the cuts in areas that won't hurt him or her. The next alternative is to have someone else pay for it, and here we find the ruler of the 2nd and the ruler of the public, the Moon, in the 8th house of other's money. Citizens of the other 49 states, hang on to your wallets.

The governor's enemies are shown by the radical 4th house. Again no surprise here. Venus, ruler of the 4th is conjunct Pluto in the 11th, the hosue of advisors to the king. They are powerful and they are in the legislature. This is further emphasized by the square to Mars ruler of the MC, the governor.

I would be hard pressed to name a Lord of the Geniture for this chart. Mercury is the only planet with any essential dignity (face) and he is in detriment. The LoG would be the "way out" but who is that? The Sun is the only angular planet in the chart, so he may be it. But the Sun rules the intercepted Leo in the 7th (declare war on the US?). The Sun is the exaltation ruler of the 3rd. Maye Arnie can sell a lot of autographs.

This is not a pretty sight, and I don't envy Arnold. He has his work cut out for him. I hope an astrologer didn't select this time and date for him.

Tom
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't look good does it? I said in an earlier post that he has to be very careful about what he promises because he is unlikely to live up to those expectations. And given his hero like status, near enough will not be good enough. I read a political comment a couple of days ago that the election of Arnold proves the American public is most concerned with the economy rather than what is happening in Iraq. According to the commentator, this is what will win Bush another term. As you pointed out Tom, the chart seems to be suggesting other people's money. I was wondering whether it will be worth the effort of the Republicans to throw as much money at California as possible, at least until the election. After all, I would imagine a lot of people will look to what happens in California as the election grows closer.
I'm not sure there is an easy way out. Both Mercury and the Sun are inhibited in their own way. I'm interested in the strong reception between Mercury and Jupiter and Venus and Jupiter. Jupiter seems to have a strong emphasis in the chart and being in the 8th in detriment may leave Arnold having to rely on others rather than taking charge himself. Not a good look for the action man.
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's happening on 17th November? I've tried to read back through the thread to find out what you're talking about, but couldn't see it. Admitedly I'm rushed, and ignorant.
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The inauguration ceremony for Arnold to become governor of California happens at 11am on November 17th.
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh right, thanks. Well here's the chart then - I can see what you're talking about now Smile
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As you pointed out Tom, the chart seems to be suggesting other people's money. I was wondering whether it will be worth the effort of the Republicans to throw as much money at California as possible, at least until the election. After all, I would imagine a lot of people will look to what happens in California as the election grows closer.


The temptation will be there, but tossing money at California or any other state is a serious mistake, not to mention that the legal mechanism may be lacking other than guaranteed loans. The last thing Califorinia needs is more debt. There is a negative precedent. In the 1960s and 70s New York City under mayors John Lindsey and Abraham Beame spent themselves broke. The arguments then are the arguments that will be made by California, to wit, NYC is so important to the economy, if NYC fails it will have ripple effects all over the country blah blah blah, therefore the rest of the country via the US Treausry should pony up. Then President Gerald Ford said "No," on the correct grounds that giving the spendthrifts the keys to the treasury was no way to insure fiscal responsibility. Ronald Reagan once said famously of the US Congress: "If you have a financially irresponsible teenager you can lecture him about the value of money, or you can take his allowance away." Cruz Bustamante, after the election said, "This is rocket science' we simply spent more than we took in." Ergo, they got into this mess, they have to get out of it, and many think the first step was to oust the sitting governor.

However the moral of the NYC story is that Gerald Ford lost New York and a very close election. President Bush does not seem to be the type to pander to buy votes. Just the other day he went to one of the Carolinas where unemployment is higher than the national average and told them that the economy is good and will continue to be good, but that due to its changing nature people will have to make changes and as with most changes there will be some pain. If you didn't recognize the man or his voice, you would have sworn no politiican would ever say that so close to an election. Arnie hasn't asked for anything, yet.

Quote:
I'm interested in the strong reception between Mercury and Jupiter and Venus and Jupiter


I would not consider Mercury in Sagittarius and Jupiter in Virgo a strong mutual reception as they are both in detriment. It's like two drunks helping each other home. It's a help but not much. Mercury is interesting as I think the other planets are in more Mercury dignities than any other. Mercury is in a good house though, And Mercury rules the 8th house.

Let's face it, California is in trouble or this inauguration wouldn't be happening. The chart may just reflect the state of the State, but the way out isn't clear at all.

Tom
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Deb
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do like that analogy of the reception between Mercury in detriment in Sagittarius and Jupiter in detriment in Virgo as being like two drunks helping each other home. Cool
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I do like that analogy of the reception between Mercury in detriment in Sagittarius and Jupiter in detriment in Virgo as being like two drunks helping each other home


I'd love to claim credit for that one, but I can't and I can't recall where I first heard it or read it. I thought I got it from John Frawley, but when I used it in a correspondence to him, ascribing it to "an astrologer" thinking he would recognize it, he wrote back and said he really liked the analogy. So I guess it wasn't his. What the hell, it's accurate, and to the unknown wit who taught it to me: "Thank you."

Tom
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graelhaven



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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:21 am    Post subject: other planets... and thoughts.. Reply with quote

Arnies female problems.... Venus conjunct Pluto?

First house, state of the state, neptune sextile murcury...comminicating ideas seems to be only possitive note?

Uranus will be square Sun when the sun moves 3 degrees further. perhaps some rather less than fortuitous changes? upsets?

though Uranus is trine part of fortune within 2 degrees it is also square both head and tail of dragon.... Nodes.... does it seem as though some very unexpected changes will cause arnie havoc?

asside from an upcoming conjunction to Jupiter the moons aspects Dont look very promising. Shocked as far as I can see. squares all over the places...

and with all the less than promising aspects the trine between Mars and Saturn seems to me to perfect the malific side of these planets, not the good things... ??? okay enough gloom and doom prophesey for us all?


Intuitively the Sun seems to be the LOG, I think, just because he's at the top of the chart in the kings house.

Doesn't the south node in the 10th house seem less than fortuitous?

Are there any good points in this chart?

MissB
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Are there any good points in this chart?


The question should be are there any good points regarding the situation faced by the governor? The chart reflects the reality and the reality isn't very nice. If the reality was not that difficult, then Gray Davis would still be governor. But your basic point is valid.
Quote:
Arnies female problems.... Venus conjunct Pluto?


I think I will soon go on an anti-outer planet rampage until all astrologers begin to narrow down the delineations of these planets. Neptune is my pet peeve. Modern astrology prides itself on not being so fatalistic yet every time we hear of an outer planet it is in a negative context. How about female empowerment? That would be close to what some people think of Pluto. Women coming out of the woodwork as part of a strategy to prevent Arnold from succeeding? That is also a Pluto thing. Let's let this one unfold.

Quote:
First house, state of the state, neptune sextile mercury...communicating ideas seems to be only possitive note?


No politician in my memory, except Jimmy Carter, ever gave a truly negative major speech. I heard some of Arnold's speech; he acknowledged the problems but was upbeat about solving them, which is to be expected. Interestingly both Bill Clinton and G W Bush have this aspect in their natal charts. Clinton has Neptune on the ASC and W has Mercury on the ASC. Since we're dealing with Neptune this can mean anything we want it too as long as it's vague. Positive or negative depends solely wheter or not we like the individual about whom we are writing. Razz (I really hate Neptune lately).

Quote:
asside from an upcoming conjunction to Jupiter the moons aspects Dont look very promising. as far as I can see. squares all over the places...


This is what I really wanted to comment on. In traditional astrology, squares are usually delays, obstructions, bumps along the road so to speak. They do not prevent things from happening. Oppositions are more troublesome. The opposition in this chart is actually part of a T-square. Mars, Lord 10, the Governor, opposes Jupiter, Lord 11, the legislature from the 2nd house of resources opposing the 8th house of taxes. Both of these square Venus lady of the 4th house. This is the home of community, families, and the foundations of, in this case, California. The spending has to be financed, but how? The legislature is in the 8th house of taxes and the governor is the 2nd house of resources. He will want to make do with what they have, the legislature will want to tax its way out of difficulty. Jupiter is in a weak mutual reception with Mercury ruler of the 5th, 6th, and 8th. You might see a feeble attempt (weak mutual reception) to solve the problems by taxing entertainment or the entertainment industry (5th house), or taxing of services (6th house) or increase taxes on death or income (8th house). Venus rules property so look for an attempt at property tax increase. Do not rule out "all of the above."

Mars, on the other hand seems to be going this alone. Mars is in the house of Jupiter, but there is no other reception to help Mars. Mars is in a separating trine to Saturn, Lord ASC, but they don't seem able to work together very well.

The Moon is applying to an opposiiton to Mars perhaps indicating a coming loss of popularity for Arnold and siding with the legislature. This would not be the first legislature to gull the public into believing that other people, usually "the rich," will be paying the taxes. When they realize what hit them, it wil be too late. Like old soldiers, new taxes never die. Unlke old soldiers, they never fade away either.

I still can't see a way out. I'm getting the feeling that the T-square represents a struggle for the people between the governor and the legislature, but that it goes nowhere. Nobody wins. Everywhere I look in ths chart, the important significators make no application to any planet while still in the current sign. It's almost as if the entire chart is void of course. I don't envy the man at all. For California's sake, I hope he can pull an economic rabbit out of a hat.

Tom
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Deb
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've moved a few of the subsequent posts that diverted into an outer-planet rampage into the Nativities and General Astrology Section to keep this thread mainly focussed on one topic and allow that to develop elsewhere. Sorry - I meant to keep them included here too, but I messed up somehow. Sad
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