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Big flu outbreak due to hit soon...
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PBrown



Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 30

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:32 am    Post subject: Big flu outbreak due to hit soon... Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I'm not sure if this effects people outside the U.S.A. (though I imagine it does), but apparently a devastating flu epidemic is supposed to hit the U.S. soon, from two weeks to a couple of months. I just read about it in the Oct 8 Nytimes. From the article it looks like the last three major flu epidemics to hit the U.S. were in 1918, 1958, and 1968. I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to do research into finding the "birth charts" of the outbreaks of those flues? I am a little worried about the current flu because the article says the U.S. is unprepared.
What do all of you think?

Peter
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Tom
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although it would be worthwhile to examine previous charts a reality check is in order.

1) To date there have been about 100 deaths world wide of the so-called "bird flu." None of these unfortunate individuals contacted the disease from another human. They caught it from birds. Once it is spread between humans though, this will become a very serious world-wide problem.

2) The recent paper that is all over the internet is a report of a worst case scenario in the US, i.e., a scenario that could take place if little or nothing is done. Six hundred million vaccines have been ordered and although that is enough for two doses for every man woman and child in the US, for some reason it is considered inadequate. Perhaps more than one dose per person is necessary. This is quite a bit of vaccine to produce in a short time, and let's hope it is within manufacturing capabilities.

3) The data I've read puts off a major outbreak in the US for a lot longer than a few months. In fact just last night I read that it might be two years away, which is not a lot of time to manufacture and distribute six hundred million of anything. In fact at 300 million we'd have to manufacture and distribute over 400,000 doses per day, 7 days per week, to get this done in two years. If it's two weeks away, don't sweat it. Just get used the the idea that lots and lots of people are going to die. It's too late to do anything.

4) I'll try to look at the flu epidemics of the past, but I'd suggest that we check grand conjunctions and other notable cosmic events for comparison with the epidemic charts.

This potential epidemic has serious potential. The report is the first step toward mobilization. Let's hope and pray it isn't too late.

Tom
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Tom
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m beginning to love Grand Conjunction charts. Let’s start with this one: Nov 28, 1901, 4:29 PM GMT. I cast it for Washington DC. 9 Aquarius 34 rises; the MC is 29 Scorpio 18.

Deb tells us that public health is shown by the first house,


Quote:
“ … but this house (6th) highlighted will indicate periods of vulnerability to epidemics and widespread diseases.”


That’s what we’re looking for. The ASC, public health starts out OK as it is ruled by Saturn in Capricorn (domicile), but Saturn is conjunct Jupiter in Capricorn and Jupiter, of course is in his fall. That the conjunction is in the 12th house is noteworthy as well. Morinus would have jumped all over this as he considered the 12th the house of sickness, but we all agree it is the house associated with

Quote:
“Hospitals, asylums, institutions governing those who are weak …” (The Houses Temples of the Sky p 85)


Notice the Moon. The Moon is smack on the 6th cusp (opposing the 12th cusp). I suggest that having a luminary on a cusp highlights the 6th and indicates periods of vulnerability to epidemics and widespread diseases. The Moon is strong in Cancer but we are talking about an opposition and one that is applying. The flu is, of course, a respiratory disease as well as one associated with water. Many of the victims of this epidemic died from pneumonia. Notice Mercury (respiratory system) in a wide trine to the Moon (Lady of the 6th) in a water sign as well.

Outer planet fans will notice the Uranus – Pluto opposition and this axis becomes important later in the story. The Moon conjuncts Pluto by antiscion;possibly indicating the “invisible” nature of the spreading of the disease.

Let’s move along to 1918 and the disease itself. I picked, somewhat arbitrarily, the town of Holbrook, Massachusetts to study the disease. This is one of the first places in the US to feel the effects of the epidemic. One particularly frightening anecdote is that one family with 12 children saw 11 of them die of this disease within a year. The first recorded case was in August of 1918 and the first death was September 16. I chose to do the September 16 chart and used 12:00 noon EWT. I did not pay close attention to the angles despite Algol, the star of piled up corpses being on the 7th cusp at noon or the fact that the MC – IC axis of the grand conjunction chart conjuncts the ASC – DSC axis of this noon chart.

The nodes caught my eye at first since they are conjunct the Uranus – Pluto axis in the 1901 chart. However the big player in this chart is Jupiter. At 12 Cancer he is in partile conjunction to the 1901 Moon and opposes the conjunction itself. He is the exaltation ruler of the 1901 6th house and exaltation is often associated with exaggeration. Jupiter doesn’t let us down. After passing 14 Cancer and opposing the conjunction itself, he goes retrograde and goes back over the opposition point, before turning direct and going back over it a third time. Jupiter would do this from any point in the world, and I think it is this that gives this flu outbreak its world wide dimensions. Using this noon chart cast in the US, Jupiter is in the 8th house of death and Mercury, strong in Virgo but in partile conjunction with Venus in her fall, rules the 8th house of death. Mercury also ruled the 1901 8th house and Venus ruled the 4th house “end of the matter.” These details would show events as they unfolded in Holbrook more than anywhere else.

I’m sure there is more here, but the study of the 1918 outbreak isn’t the sole purpose of this exercise. The purpose is to look for similarities to today and the potential bird flu pandemic. So let’s start the same way. The last grand conjunction was May, 28, 2000, 4:04 pm GMT. If we cast this one for Washington DC , we get 28 Leo rising with 22 Taurus 52 on the MC. The conjunction took place at 22 Taurus 43. With only 9 minutes of arc separating the conjunction from the MC it is easy to see the importance of this conjunction in the US. Also I need point out that while 3 or more degrees is a bit wide for a conjunction to most fixed stars, we usually give a wider berth for Algol. So this MC may be considered close enough. But this does not necessarily indicate a flu epidemic at least not by itself.

The 6th - 12th axis has the same signs as the 1901 conjunction chart but reversed. Still this ties in both Saturn (Lord 6) and Jupiter (exaltation ruler of the 12th), to that axis. There is no opposition to the conjunction by Lord 6, but Uranus squares it from the 6th and Neptune, a watery planet, opposes by antiscion. I don’t see this connection as being as strong as the 1901 connection to the Moon. There is more to the 6th and 12th than illness.

Mars is of interest as Mars at 17 Gemini conjuncts the 1901 Pluto and conjuncts the 1901 Moon – 6th cusp by antiscion. This may only represent the resurrection of this nearly forgotten epidemic. Very few people who could recall it are still living. However Mars recently made its station on the conjunction point, again perhaps this is only a reminder. Transiting Saturn will square the conjunction point in about a year. Since Saturn is Lord 6, this may indicate a possible time for the first outbreak. Unfortunately, as in the case of Jupiter and the 1901 chart, Saturn will pass over the square to the conjunction three times.

If public health is indicated by the first house, the US is in good shape as 28 Leo rises on Regulus. The Sun is peregrine in 10 indicating, as usual, Americans are wandering about rather than getting down to brass tacks to face the potential problem. That may be an exaggeration, but when bureaucracies are involved, peregrine is a good word to remember.

There are other techniques to keep in mind, and surely this exercise can be done in more depth. We have eclipses to think of, and the conjunction chart can be progressed or directed, if someone wishes to try that. It looks to me as though these charts are telling us that the epidemic will not be of the same magnitude as the 1918 flu. The part of sickness falls on the 2nd house cusp of the 2000 chart, and Mercury, its dispositor, squares by sign, putting the part in play. But Mercury is powerful in Virgo and thus the disease as indicated by the part of sickness is strong, so are the resources needed to combat it.

I’ve had a bad patch in the predictions business lately; let’s hope I’m right about this one or wrong to the point that the problem never manifests. Perhaps others will look at te eclipses and how thy might affect the 2000 conjunction or bring entirely different techniques to the table.

Tom


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Deb
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to say how much I enjoyed following the above analysis. It's not very often you see these kinds of charts explained so clearly. Thanks Tom, and of course I also hope you are wrong but from the way the threat has already presented itself I don't think you can be completely wrong. It may be worth noting that Mars turned retrograde over the MC of the 2000 chart just as the reports start to get alarming.
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in case you want ot follow the 1918 flu chart for the US
11 March 1918 a between revellee and noon 100 soldiers fell ill at fort Riley Kansas, I actually had done a lovely set of excel charts for this epidemic, but they were lost in a computer meltdown, sigh... People just dont realize what a real pandemic is anymore... of course, the ability to diminish Pnemonia greatly reduces the likelyhood we will see another pandemic as this one. But desease seems to have a way of changing in significant enough ways that it can strike us again. I used 6 am for the Fort Riley chart, not certain how close that is, but since the first soldiers started getting sick before breakfast i felt that was pretty close. I thought it odd to start in the middle of the country.

Granny.

the info, etc...

ASC 29 Aqu 58
Sun - 20 Pis 07 (1st house)
Moon 1 Pis 08 (1st house)
Merc 18 Pis 36 (1st house)
Venus 14 Aqu 13 (12th house oppSaturn and Nept)
Mars 25 Vir 21 Rx
Jupiter 4 gem 32
Saturn 8 Leo 22 (hey does this sound familiar? 6th house)
Uranus 25 Aqu 11
Nept 4 Leo 38 Rx
Pluto 3 Can 27Rx
chiron 28 Pis 49 (1st house)
NN 27 Sag 43 (sn 27 gem 43)
PoF 18 pis 56 (1st hosue)


Last edited by granny_skot on Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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granny_skot



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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also I'm wondering if this is related. recent catastrophe's

Trsunami - deaths by drowning (lack of air) and being crushed
Katrina - deaths by drowning (lack of air) and being crushed,
Rita - Mudslides in south america - (lack of air?) and being crushed
Earthquake Pakistan- Lack of air and being crushed?

on a world wide scale does this seem covered in someway by that last Grand Conjunction chart? Perhaps I am just looking at this in a different way?

Granny
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Tom
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It may be worth noting that Mars turned retrograde over the MC of the 2000 chart just as the reports start to get alarming.


Hah! It may be worth noting that Mars turned retrograde on MY MC! Let's hope it has nothing to do with me getting the flu.

Thanks for the kind words Deb. I needed that after incorrectly picking almost all of the baseball games lately.

Tom
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granny_skot



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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

found my Excel spreadsheet, with the flu epidemic dates, it wasn't the fully complete one so is not as complete as I'd like, but it has a huge amount of interesting data, I was wondering Deb if I could send it to you? If of interest. (92K of info)

Granny ???
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Deb
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have Excel software any more to open those sorts of files. But if you want me to make it available for download I can upload it to the server and make a link to it here.
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Tom
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll check the Fort Riley data as time permits. I don't need all that data, but someone else might, so if it can be made available here, I'm sure it would be appreciated.

The number of natural disasters is of interest, too. If my memory is right and the grand conjunction of 2000 is the last of the conjunctions in earth, the next one is of extreme importance as it will affect all that occur in the next element.

Tom
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sending data. Granny

also I have quite a bit of dates for American battles, if asked I will take a look and post what I have, and I'm still doing a lot of charting on other epidemics and notable natural disasters but I'm not certain where I could put all the data? currently I keep what I have in excep spread sheets if there is a greater interest I can see about putting up a web page to house it.
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Deb
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've uploaded it. To access the file click:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/warfludates.xls

I haven't opened it so have no idea what is in it, but have virus checked it to make sure it is safe for download. If there are any other files it's probably best if people contact Granny directly - but of course you can add a notice about the links in the forum.

Thanks Granny
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granny_skot



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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom,
Someone on another list I'm on, pointed out a passage from "A distant Mirror" by Barbara Tuchman which was a question by the King of France about the cause of the plague. His Physicians returned a response to him that the conj of Jupiter, Mars and Saturn in March of 1345 was the cause of the 1347 outbrake. (Aquarius conj) I notice that the jupiter saturn conjunction of 2000 occured at 22 tau 45, interestingly enough, mars is roling over that degree and will again before it passes into Gemini.

but back to the 1345 conj, mars was past both jupiter and saturn by the time they perfected conj at 19 aqu 02

thought you'd enjoy.

Granny.
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gemini sungirl



Joined: 08 Aug 2005
Posts: 21
Location: UK

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello people,
Tom's analysis and Granny's comment on mars rx above prompted me to look at the grand conjunction in 2000
28may 2000 15.30hrs London and the 1801 UK chart . ( jan 01 1801 London Midnight) - 7 Libra asc
Is this a cause for concern?
The gc occured in the UK's 8th house conjunct UK's Ceres at 23 Tau and square the UK saturn at 23 Leo.
Pisces on the 6th, so Jupiter rules animals, ( including poultry? Couldn't find a ref in CA)
in the gc chart, the asc is libra 13 -
And with the upcoming scorpio season - sun and Jupiter transits - this could trigger the uk chart tsquare - saturn ceres neptune. I'm treating Ceres as important in the uk chart as its the focus of both the gc and the recent Mars station rx... (with apologies to any trad astro purists)
If I were to stick my neck out and make a prediction, I'd say this has the look of a potential food/farming crisis.... what do you think??
gsg
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The importance and unimportance of the self cannot be exaggerated - Reginald Blyth
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granny_skot



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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

south node is currently 13 Libra, so I'd agree that UK has some forthcoming issues with enemies. And while Trad Astrologers might not want to pay attention to asteroids, the Fixed Star Zaurak is at 23 Tau 52, and is unfortunate -Melancholy, fear of death and suicidal tendencies - activated by Saturn its said. so the conjunction here and now mars rolling over this point are quite probably worth looking at. Since this point is activated by Mars, maybe look more to where mars is than small animals? well my two cents... Granny
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