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AP - Zollers 9/11 - Prediction or Consideration?

 
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:29 pm    Post subject: AP - Zollers 9/11 - Prediction or Consideration? Reply with quote

18 Aug 2003

Graelhaven:

anyone read Robert Zoller's 9/11 so called prediction which he said is mostly consideration before judgement, he considered only one or two minor statements to be actual prediction, rather than consideration?

I was wondering about how one actually separates these things? it seems to me it is a pretty fine line? anyone else have an interest? thoughts on this subject?

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Tom:

>>anyone else have an interest? thoughts on this subject?<<

As anyone whose read several of my posts can tell, I have a great deal of respect for Robert Zoller. I've been fortunate to attend a lecture and workshop of his not too long ago. I even paid for his foundation course in medieval astrology but never took the test to continue for a variety of reasons that had nothing to do with him or the course.

That being said, I have real problems with this so-called prediction of 9-11. What I read was an "explanation" of the prediction written by someone else. I thought the piece was uninformative and, as Beth said, it drew a pretty fine line. What was most irksome is that there is almost no astrology in the piece, and no indication of method.

I dismissed the work as so much hero worship, but I did find it troubling that Zoller never said anything about this piece one way or the other. In my opinion he should have said something.

Rob Hand made a prediction of war based on the Pluto - Saturn opposition and has made reference to a claim of having "predicted" 9-11. However, no astrologer, to my knowledge ever said anything like the US would be attacked on its own soil, although Hand and I think Jim Shawvan did specify a rough time that turned out to be accurate.

I'm disappointed that this thing is still floating around without comment by the principals, but it doesn't diminish my respect for Zoller's work past and present. I agree with the sentiment of one astrologer who said Zoller is is one of those rare astrologers whose reputation is less than his accomplishments. It should be noted he does suffer from Parkinson's disease, and perhaps this has something to do with his silence.

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Graelhaven:

Language Problem here. I didn't mean so called in a sarcastic sense, I meant, in the article, he says it is almost entirel consideration before judgement, others called it prediction and he points out that only two small parts classify as Prediction the rest is consideration before judgement... I was not impugning Zoller in the least, but annoyed that the yet again some journalist type doesn't listen and writes things the way they think will get the most attention as opposed to what the person actually said. I am Sorry for the sloppy writing on my part.

I am interested in the difference between consideration before judgement VERSES prediction... which sounds a lot like good instincts and deductive reasoning to me. (down spock, back in the transporter, who let you out!)

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Graelhaven:

People who make predictions tend to be blamed for the prediction coming true. I dont know if you've ever read Ann McCAffrey's to Ride Pegasus or similar works, but she notes same. And similarly, Lily was blamed for the burning of parliament I believe? as if he could have commited the act... I think it wise for zoller to remain silent in this instance. I think that had he made the prediction in private he probably never would have voiced it, but because he did so during an excersize during a public event, I think he was wise to mitigate personal loss by keeping quiet on the subject.

Secondly I think that offering a prediction for public consumption does two things. One it invites the loose screws to try to "make it so" and on rare occasion it invites the wise to do something to change their response to things outside their control changing the outcome of situations. Which of course changes the outcome. I find myself afraid to look at the outcome of the 2004 election chart because I dont think I can stand four more years of current administration...sigh... In anycase. while it would satisfy our inner curiosity, I really think Zoller is wise to keep his thoughts on this matter to himself.

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Tom:

Please do not misunderstand. My ire was directed at the author of the piece not you. If you and I are discussing the same article, I was and am annoyed at it. I'm actually pleased that someone brought it to the attention of the group.

I detected no disrespect on your part at all. All you did was ask a question. In fact, I thought referring to it as a "so-called" prediction was pretty accurate.

Either tell me where you came across it or send it to me privately. I want to be sure we are discussing the same thing.

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Graelhaven:

Oh, actually I read one on Zollers page, which was fairly decent, though I feel the author there went out of his way to make subjective excuses for Zoller where none are needed. Then I did a google search and found one that was more... loosely translated. I dont know the second page, but used the conference information and zoller in the search to come up with info... Sorry about that. I was and am a bit more interested in the subject, than in a particular consideration. Though of course particular considerations must be used!
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AP - This is an archived post, but may still be responded to.
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EstebonGone



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i realize that this is an old topic, but i find it hard to believe that this is all the dialogue on the topc of Zoller's prediction.
First i believe that the author of the article is Luke Andrews, who is the Registar for the Academy of Predictive Astrology and the person who gave me my foundation exam. As i understand it Robert Zoller has given New Library permission to handle his lessons and translations. if this is correct he most likely knew about the Sept. 11th article (it was mostly a response to the letter published on Rob Hand's website).
I have yet to see any other astrologer display any of the kind of accuracy (especially while remaining aloof) that Zoller did regarding 9/11:
"The greatest period of danger is in September 2001.....I am looking at terrorism that is rooted in Islamic fundamentalism and directed at everyday citizens going about their daily business in their own cities.......Certainly before the end of the year (2001) and there will be some irony in today's date (June 11th!), an echo we might say."
Looks like a prediction to me. I agree Mr. Andrew's writing is a little serving to Zoller, but this was a huge development for the re-discovery of Astrology. The day i read that article I abandoned the "modern" view point of Astrology and have found great personal happiness using the highly complex and developed levels of Medieval Astrology. it is this complexity that keeps the particulars of technique out of articles like the 9/11 one. Dedication and depth of understanding are neccessary before these ancient techniques will work for you.
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Tom
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I think you're right about this. My reference at the time was to a web posting ABOUT Zoller's Prediction, and it may have been Andrews. I thought it was way over the top. However, just this past November, while on vacation I came across a skeptic's criticism of Zoller's prediction, and read, for the first time, the prediction as it came from Zoller himself. I agree this was a good prediction and I even wrote a lenghy criticism in rebuttal to the skeptic's argument, but never edited it or sent it, when I realized the criticism was almost three years old. At that point why bother?

But Zoller's remarks were valid and probably as precise as one can be with astrology given the time it was made. In other words, there was no perceived threat to US soil at that time as terrorist attacks on the US (except one) had all been overseas. There is evidence of personal bias in the prediction, but I'm sure if I had his background and I made one, my biases would be evident as well.

Robert Hand has been given credit for such a prediction, but Hand, to the best of my knowledge, predicted "war." He based this on the Pluto Saturn opposition and used that in connection with the so-called "Chart of the World." I heard him make that prediction six or months in advance, but it was less precise than Zoller's, and he may have modified it after that. Still Hand's is a valid prediction as well.

The critic I referred to seemed upset that Zoller didn't say the attack would occur on Sept 11, 2001 at 8:48 am in lower Manhattan on a clear day. He didn't, so I guess astrology is bunk.

Tom
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