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AP - The Sun, a malefic through conjunction

 
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:37 pm    Post subject: AP - The Sun, a malefic through conjunction Reply with quote

19 Aug 2003

Tom:

What I don't know about Indian (Vedic) astrology would fill libraries, but I was once told that Indian astrologers consider the Sun a malefic or that it can be malefic. It seems we have that tradition is Western astrology, too. I found this quote in Ibn Ezra's book *The Book of Reasons*:

"Abu Mashar said: No other planet is as malefic as the Sun when a planet is conjoined with him, for it loses its strength with him, whereas the other malefics cannot do that."

Abu Ma'shar (787 - 886 AD) is no lightweight. Robert Zoller calls him "The Prince of astrologers." So, I decided to look up what he had to say about the Sun. I have *The Abbreviation of The Introduction to Astrology* translated by Charles Burnett. I couldn't find Ibn Ezra's reference, but I did find this:

"With regard to the weakness of the planets it is if they are slow in their motion, or in their first station or retrograding. The most harmful retrogradation is the retrogradation of the two inferior planets, especially when, in addition to their retrogradation, they are burnt [combust]."

Later in the book he says: "The Sun is a benefic ... it brings good fortune, it brings bad fortune, at one time it raises, at another time it brings down."

So the Sun is a switch hitter, at least according to Abu Ma'shar. It has the power to create, and the power to destroy.

Do we have any examples of either for discussion? We could look for prominent combust planets, planets under the beams, planets cazimi, and planets in hard or soft aspect to the Sun. I'll look for some, too.

---------------------

Sue:

How about Eric Burdon?

Birth Data: 11 May, 1941
Midnight
Newcastle-upon-Tyne
England
A rating


He has Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus all combust the Sun, all in Taurus. Geez, I thought I was bad.

------------------------

Sag:

Not pertinent to the discussion but will ask anyway:

What orb do they allow for combustion?

I have Sun (23'4Cool in Sagittarius combust Jupiter (22'22). Neptune at 28'45.

Also, what is the significance of the combustion? And its effect?

I'm cursed yet again! Shocked

-------------------------

Tom:

Yup, You're cursed Razz . Speaking of curses, there is an astrologer, who shall remain nameless, who offers, for a fee of course, to determine whether or not you've been cursed, and to remove it. I don't know what he charges.

The orb for combustion is 17 degrees which means 8 1/2 degrees either way (the moiety). There are degrees of combustion. A planet close to the Sun and moving towards it is in rougher shape than a planet at the fringes of combustion moving away from it.

"Under the Beams" deserves mention, too. Lilly says,a planet is under the beams if he is within 17 degrees of the Sun in either direction. This is not in addition to combustion, I don't think.

Combustion renders a planet weak. It has difficulty acting or its activity is blocked by the Sun. Too much ego perhaps, getting in the way of thinking clearly(Mercury combust)in modern terms. Under the beams is a milder form of combustion, although one of the authorities, I forget who, thinks being under the beams is worse than combustion. Morin thinks combustion is a myth and has no affect at all.

In horary it often symbolizees a person who is dominated by another.

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Sag:

Thanks Tom. Deb will kill me - I just found "combustion" in the glossary. Confused

Anyway, this thread is very interesting. I cannot wait to hear other responses!

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Graelhaven:

Tom,
so even though you have say, moon in cancer, sun in leo or venus in taurus, sun in leo or hey may something a little different, like Sun in Pices, Mars in Ares...if they are less than 8 degrees the sun combusts? hmmm, I find that interesting. my own Venus is too far from sun to be combust, but I would think that a planet being in its own sign would give it back some of its strength?

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Tom:

Hi Beth,

I'm sure combustion has an effect, but I'm not clear on just how devastating it is. I would think that if a planet in a strong reception, and perhaps in aspect to its dispositor, might be helped.

As I said previously, The great French Astrologer Morin dismissed combustion
altogether, but he did so for the flimsiest of reasons. He said it didn't work in his own chart. More than one astrologer has foolishly claimed universality for his own horoscope.

Morin had the Sun in Pisces, and Jupiter combust in Pisces, as well as Venus combust in Pisces. Both planets are highly dignified, Venus is in her exaltation, Jupiter in his rulership.

What follows is a private correspondence from John Frawley to me about this very problem. I don't think I'm out of line by quoting this; at least I hope not:

Quote:
"The debate on whether combustion in a planet’s own sign is an affliction goes way back. I am more & more certain, both by reason & experience, that it is not, & that it should be regarded just as a mutual reception between that planet & the Sun (with the usual riders about mutual reception: the stronger the Sun, the more the combust planet will benefit; so Mars combust in Aries will be favoured more than Venus combust in Taurus). "


On the other hand, if we use Lee Lehman's idea that combustion is based on things visual, then it shouldn't matter. Close to the Sun is combust. Like John said, the debate goes on.

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Graelhaven:

it is an interesting subject. one I think I'll start watching more closely. I alsways thought of any planet that was really close tot he sun as being More supportive of the sun, rather than being enhanced of the sun. For instance, I always thought of my mercury conjunct sun in natal chart to be Mercury helping me to express my Sun better both verbally and in writing rather than the sun supporting my communication abilities in any way... Where as in other conjunctions I think of the planets supporting each other.

I suppose this is just another way of viewing the same idea? but somehow it seems a bit different? MissB

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Graelhaven:

Sag,
there are those that believe that you can enhance a planets strength in your chart by wearing the stone that corresponds to that planet on your person. You might experiment and see if that holds true for you?

(that is the practical scientist coming out in me, you can't know unless you try ) I am not quite certain I buy the theory, but hey, I doubt it can hurt.

-----------------------------

Graelhaven:

Okay so we have a planet within 8 degrees of the sun... how does this normally express itself per planet? for instance Venus will be combusts the sun for a while and Jupiter is coming up to a period of combustion (next week) and mercury often seems to be.... who does this present itself in the person? or mundane chart? or electional? etc... would that mean it is not a good marriage weekend? or? and when there is a solar eclipse the sun is dimmed by the moon isn't it(Astrologically speaking ) ? does that allow the planets around it to shine? for instance in the 10/14/04 eclipse, the sun, moon, mercury, mars and Jupiter will ALL be in Libra....mars and jupiter are far enough away not to be combust, but???? what does the eclipse do? allow the other planets to shine? work? whatever?

------------------------------

Tom:

In some of the medieval texts combustion is translated into English as "burnt." The planet is rendered weak if not impotent depending on circumstances.

So Saturn is the principle of restriction, contraction stucture, then if combust those things would be lacking particularly in the house that Saturn is in and the houses he rules, e.g. a lack of self discipline, a lack of sturcture at work.

Jupiter is expansion, joy etc those things might be lacking. Mars combust might sap the native of physical energy particularly, if he is combust in the first. Venus is the principle of love so loving might be difficult. Mercury combust might make one inarticulate; the Moon combust might make it difficult to conceive children.

As always there are other factors, which is why we say we must read the entire chart. I wouldn't be too concerened about transiting planets in combustion. Any effects would probably be temporary.

----------------------------------

Graelhaven:

One of the reasons I brought it up now is that looking at the ephemeris I note that Venus will be combust for darn near a month, I was thinking in the current world climate, it might denote a bit less compassion ... etc... it will be traveling very close to the sun... and with mars hanging out in pices.... well it just looks like an angry reactive period with little compassion. thanks for your imput, I appreciate it.
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AP - This is an archived post, but may still be responded to.
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