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Moon Phases

 
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Branka



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 1

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 am    Post subject: Moon Phases Reply with quote

A question of the historians on the list.

I would be interested to find out when the Moon phases 'multiplied', to put it that way. As far as I know, New, Full and quarter Moon phases were extensivly used in the past. Today, moderns have these "Balsamic", "Gibbous" etc mid-phases.

Would anybody know who and when introduced this for the first time?
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Andrew



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 360

Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dane Rudhyar, in his definitive text 'The Lunation Cycle,' was the first astrologer to divide the lunation cycle into eight geometric relationships between the Sun and the Moon. The humanistic astrologer Michael R. Meyer has stated that:

" . . . the cyclic process outlined in the book and forming its foundation was in harmony with authentic theosophy . . . As I read the book, I found myself anticipating what was coming because I understood the cyclic process according to theosophy . . . Indeed, it restored cyclicity to astrology. But what most impressed me about 'The Lunation Cycle' was its theosophical foundation . . . I immediately realized that Rudhyar's description of the structure of the lunation cycle — with its involutionary and evolutionary hemicycles and its 8 soli-lunar phases — was rooted in the theosophical worldview. Indeed, Rudhyar's presentation of the 7 illuminated soli-lunar phases and the dark new moon phase closely followed the theosophical doctrine depicting 7 'globes' of manifestation plus an unmanifest 'pralaya' phase of dissolution."

So there you have it. Theosophy, yet again.
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While Dane Rudhyar does seem to be the first astrologer to present the lunation cycle in eight phases it wouldn't be entirely fair to describe the idea of eight Lunar phases as a modernist or Theosophical 'invention' by him.

Astronomers have been describing the lunation cycle in this way for a long time. As an example I have before me a copy of the book 'Teach Yourself Astronomy' by the famous British Astronomer Patrick Moore. In the book Moore explains the eight phases are based on how much of the Moon can be observed between the cycle of New to Full Moon or visa versa. The book demonstrates this with diagrams of the Moon in its eight phases. Clearly Patrick Moore is no devotee of Dane Rudhyar!

According to contemporary astronomy the eight phases are:

1 New
2 Waxing crescent
3 First Quarter
4 Gibbous
5 Full
6 Gibbous
7 Last Quarter
8 Waning Crescent

Rudhyar renamed the following lunation phases in his book:

6 Disseminating
8 Balsamic
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deeptiman



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 76
Location: São Paulo-SP brazil

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:20 pm    Post subject: Paulus Alexandrinus and the Moon Reply with quote

Dear Branka,
I Have two ancient books of astrology that describe Moon Phases:
In Matheseos Libri VIII, Firmicus Maternus (séc IV)- Liber quartus -I :
"The Moon is either Synodic(in conjunction with the Sun),Full,Dichotomous(Half), Menoides(New), or Amficyrtous(Gibbous).As she changes from one to other she completes the month of light"

2) Paulus Alexandrinus - "Late classical astrology"
This is another astrologer from the 4th century,he describe Moon phases : Cap. 16 -"Concerning the figures wich the Moon makes to the Sun"
"The figures of the Moon,wich are called phases, are ten:
Concurrence,Coming forth,Emergence,Crescent,Half-Moon,Gibbous.Whole Moon,Gibbous again,Second half-Moon and Crecent.Some say there's also an 11 phase,calling it 'With full light or "Full Moon".
(translated by Dorian Greenbaum - ed.Arhat -2001)

Then Paulus explain that Concurrance is when Moon and the Sun is in the same Zoidion(New Moon),Coming forth when the Moon past one degree from the Sun;Emergency -when goes 15 degrees beyond the Sun;First crescent -60 Degrees beyond;First Half Moon -90 degrees;First gibbous -120 degrees;Full Moon -150 degrees,Whole Moon -Moon at 180 degrees away from the Sun;Waning(gibbous again) - When Moon goes one degree beyond diameter(180 degrees) between Moon and Sun and called "Diminution";Second Gibbous - 120 degrees away from the Sun;
Second Half-Moon - 90 degrees away and Second crescent-Moon is 60 degrees away from the Sun

I Hope that it helpes you
Gerson Pelafsky
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deeptiman



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 76
Location: São Paulo-SP brazil

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:57 pm    Post subject: I must to say,i'm not an authority Reply with quote

Hi,it's me again.I've searched detailed explanation about Moon phases on Tetrabiblos(Ptolomy) and Carmen Astrologicum(Dorotheus of Sidon) both of 2th century,and i don't saw it. Vetius Vallens,another ancient,i haven't read it therefore i don't know.I must to say,i'm only an "astrology's lover"not an authority.
All the best
Gerson Pelafsky
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Andrew



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 360

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkC wrote:
While Dane Rudhyar does seem to be the first astrologer to present the lunation cycle in eight phases it wouldn't be entirely fair to describe the idea of eight Lunar phases as a modernist or Theosophical 'invention' by him.


http://www.mindfire.ca/The%20Lunation%20Cycle/The%20Lunation%20Cycle.htm

"This pioneering classic provides a new dimension in the use of Astrology as a powerful tool in understanding life patterns. The Lunation Cycle is a unique technical breakthrough revealing the significance of the cyclic relationship of the Sun and Moon as phases of a larger process. Rudhyar formulates and describes here for the first time, the eight Soli-Lunar types of personalities and the importance of the New Moon Before Birth and the Progressed New Moon charts.

"Rudhyar's innovative presentation of the Progressed Lunation Cycle is an invaluable technique providing insight into how to use all life events in the actualization of inner potentials. The meaning of specific events are viewed as an ordered series of Lunation phases, with the context of your whole life pattern, from birth to death. This is a practical and clear way to anticipate major turning points and transition periods, and to understand our individual schedules of unfoldment."

http://cura.free.fr/xx/17frank4.html

"Rudhyar's vision was flawed by his idealism. The baggage he carried from the social context of the Theosophical Society prevented him from integrating a scientific perspective. If Rudhyar's cosmology had incorporated more of a physical perspective, it would probably have become accessible to scientific theoreticians with sympathetic metaphysical inclinations. Instead the Theosophical window-dressing obscures the inherent merit of the substance of his theory."

http://www.theos-l.com/archives/199309/tl00039.html

"Rudhyar is, and I know others will agree, a most important contributor to 20th century theosophical thinking. The Movement moved through him, but very few realize he was, in conventional language, the living "head" of a very potent and long theosophical "lineage" most today are entirely unaware of. He seldom revealed it, sometimes denied it."

Rudhyar's formulation and interpretation of the lunation cycle was entirely theosophical in inspiration, and it is his understanding of the lunation cycle that the vast majority of modern astrologers adhere to.
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deeptiman



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 76
Location: São Paulo-SP brazil

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:12 am    Post subject: Tradition Reply with quote

Dane Rudhyar was not so brilhant...In fact,pre-natal Moon is greek invention,not Rudhyar's invention,and his use of Pre natal New Moon is not exact: Ancient astrologers talk about New Moon or Whole Moon,the lunation prior birth - therefore using only New Moon is just half of the story...
Gerson
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deeptiman



Joined: 15 May 2005
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Location: São Paulo-SP brazil

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:19 am    Post subject: Traditional Reply with quote

This is a traditional forum,therefore Dane Rudhyar is a subject out of context here...read above:TRADITIONAL (E ANCIENT) TECHNIQUES
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Kim Farnell



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 256

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick wave to Branka....

Whilst the terminology used to desccribe the eight phases was hardly Rudhyar's invention, I concur with Andrew that the modern usage of them is directly derived from his work, and from theosophy. (If I get really bored, maybe I can dig out a relevant Blavatskyan statement Very Happy )

This may be of interest http://www.yeatsvision.com/Phases.html

Quote:
This is a traditional forum,therefore Dane Rudhyar is a subject out of context here...read above:TRADITIONAL (E ANCIENT) TECHNIQUES


? So there's a new rule saying that no-one's supposed to discuss traditional techniques in a modern context? It's true that there are a number of people here who would be happy to delete Rudhyar from their consciousness, but this would be an extremely strange discussion if it excluded him. Traditional, not blinkered.

Kim
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deeptiman



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 76
Location: São Paulo-SP brazil

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I apologise to the members if someone was offended by my words.What i mean is just that Dane Rudhyar was not "The inventor of the well",we need to put the things in perspective.For exemple,someone who desires to be a good writer probably will be better if he knows the classics like Shakespeare,etc.Dane Rudhyar's ideas have merit,but some of his ideas are in conflict with tradition and maybe are a distortion of the real knowledge.We need to be more critical and protect tradition when there's necessity.

Gerson
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Kim Farnell



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 256

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm not offended.

I don't think anyone meant to suggest that Rudhyar invented the phases.

Quote:
Dane Rudhyar's ideas have merit,but some of his ideas are in conflict with tradition and maybe are a distortion of the real knowledge.


Precisely. And yet he has been hugely influential, was one of the most - if not the most - prolific astrological writers ever, especially once you start counting his peudonymous works. And his astrology was born out of theosophy. The way that Rudhyar used the phases led to the approach used by modern astrologers today.

Quote:
We need to be more critical and protect tradition when there's necessity.


"Know your enemy" springs to mind as a response Very Happy

Rudhyar pops up in these discussions regularly. I'm hardly a fan of his work, but we can't ignore him. (Tom can insert an opinion here if he's bored.)

However, although it may add some confusion, I'd like to point out that Sepharial was prone to throwing a few gibbous Moons about. It detracts from the argument not at all though, as many of his ideas were entrenched in theosophical theory. And he nowhere near had the influence of Rudhyar.

Kim
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skydiamond307



Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 1
Location: denver colorado

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Moon Phases Reply with quote

I think that the first human who looked at the sky and wondered how the disc of the moon changed and why probably made up names for those phases. To wonder who was "first" to divide the phases up into 8 partitions with names reminds me of watching the cat chase his tail.

Branka wrote:
A question of the historians on the list.

I would be interested to find out when the Moon phases 'multiplied', to put it that way. As far as I know, New, Full and quarter Moon phases were extensivly used in the past. Today, moderns have these "Balsamic", "Gibbous" etc mid-phases.

Would anybody know who and when introduced this for the first time?

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Kim Farnell



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 256

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but - Branka said "used" and considering it was posted here, we'd assume "used in astrological interpretation" was meant. I thought that was the discussion, not just who named them.

Kim
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3496
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re Rudhyar:

Quote:
(Tom can insert an opinion here if he's bored.)


I'll never deny his influence, but I'll never understand it,

Tom
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