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The Re-emergence of Divinatory Astrology
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aquirata



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 157
Location: Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb,

Quote:
That is a compliment and I feel very flattered. I shall cling to those words even though I realise it probably boiled down to a matter of weight in your luggage and my book, being light, got away with it Smile

Well, if anything, the weight argument is in favour of your book because it was judged highly valuable despite its thinness.

Quote:
I donít actually see the differences as being of complexity but of principle. Because these Ďchance drivení systems all allow for the random presentation of the signs, so the onus is very heavily on the intuitive input of the caster/reader. So is horary of course, Iím not denying that; but we canít shuffle planets about or let them fall where they will;

I'm glad I have waited for so long to answer your post. Although it was not intentional, this period of unconscious contemplation let your words sink in and gain a deeper understanding. I remember when I first read your post, my immediate response in my mind was something like what Coder put forward. If I understand you correctly, however, you are saying that other divinatory systems have no or minimal natural part, and astrology is partly natural and partly divinational , both parts being significant (I'm using your definitions). With that in mind, let me read you further since it all ties into the same question:

Quote:
So ultimately each chart, and every individual reading of each chart will differ according to subjective impulses, and itís hard to see how any objective analysis of chart work, whether its horary or any other type, will lead to scientific approval... It would be better to think that some of the components of astrological reasoning would undergo further objective analysis.

Alright, so do you think that certain components of astrology (such as diurnal positions) can be objectively tested and validated, but, when it comes to the entire phenomenon, subjectivity enters which makes objective testing impossible? If so, do you not think that further advances in scientific tools and methodology will be able to tackle this problem?

Quote:
But then what happened to the Gauquelin sectors or the Mars effect? How quickly were the potential of those fields of enquiry ignored by a scientific community that doesnít seem to be genuinely interested or willing to invest in further research?

Correct. Many competent people have put tremendous effort into this line of research. The final verdict that's been standing for the past six years is that there is a definite effect. Yet scientific orthodoxy simply ignores results and keeps parroting the p-word. This of course is part of a deeper problem, and astrology is just one of the victims of a broader social and moral decadency of our times.

At any rate, it's nice to see your picture, and I have to say that you look way too young and much too beautiful for your wisdom! Smile
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aquirata



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 157
Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a postscript to the 'divination' issue, let me categorically say this: that there exists an objectively verifiable part of astrology is now as clear to me as daylight. This denies the possibility of astrology being only divinatory (i.e. with no relationship to modern science), but it doesn't preclude the coexistence of them.

Does this make sense? Is this the divine will?
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Peter,

Iíll try and get back to some of your points next month. Iíve just returned from holiday and my feet barely touch the ground before I leave for a two week teaching engagement. But very briefly, yes, what you assumed in your post before the last was what I meant: that horary is far more tied to natural cycles than some other divinational systems. Although we might divide astrology into Ďnaturalí or Ďjudicialí branches, the division is one of employment rather than origin of cause. Thatís why I maintain that all branches of astrology are Ďnaturalí and all are capable of divinational analysis. It is the Ďco-existenceí of spiritual meaning in natural phenomena that I am arguing, which I suppose is the belief that divine will is omnipresent and capable of being understood through the study of nature.
I also believe that much more of astrology is capable of being objectively verified than is currently the case; but Iím sceptical that astrology Ďas a studyí or Ďas a wholeí will ever be verified or accepted. Partly this is because we have elements within astrology that even we struggle to provide philosophical support for (Iím thinking here of such things as the division of terms and faces, etc), and partly because its claims are too lofty and intimidating for most scientists. History has shown that as parts of astrology become accepted as fact, those Ďfactsí get integrated into another science as if they were never part of the astrological tradition. So even if it were scientifically proved without a shadow of a doubt that the planetary cycles affect earthly events and human behaviour, Iím sure that some new complicated name would be invented for that accepted knowledge and astrology (as a system for making personal predictions and judgements on individual circumstances) would continue to be ridiculed in Ďacademicí circles. I hope I get proved wrong Smile

Your research sounds very interesting BTW and I hope we can learn more of it soon.

Deb
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aquirata



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 157
Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb,

I'm very glad to hear from you. You had gone missing for a few weeks, so I figured you must have been on vacation.

Thanks for confirming my interpretation of your thoughts! We are in general agreement here: the workings of the divine are all-encompassing, and, as far as material manifestation is concerned, much of it should be objectively verifiable.

You're so right about parts of astrology having been integrated into mainstream science. It is frustrating on one hand but also reassuring on the other: from modern science's point of view, nothing rational can be part of astrology since it is obviously a 'pseudoscience.' So the scientists' taking anything out of astrology and including it in science is equivalent to embracing a small part of astrology, which essentially means progress on the whole. There will come a point in my view, however, when there will be too much to embrace, and science will be content with living with an objectively verifiable astrology.

My research has reached its culmination point with the Full Moon. All the hard work is done, now it is time to interpret the results in proper context and prepare an article for publication. I'm planning to finish this phase within two weeks, and will naturally keep you posted on my progress.

So enjoy your teaching assignment, and by the conclusion of that hopefully I will have something promising and exciting to say on this subject!
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