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Astrology of the compound Almuten
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astrojin



Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 469

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:17 am    Post subject: Astrology of the compound Almuten Reply with quote

Hello,

Does anybody have any luck in using compound almuten in delineating natal charts? Omar of Tiberias ("Three Books of Nativities") and later authors (Montulmo, Schoner, etc.) mentioned many of these almutens (almuten of mother, father, substance, chart, etc.). You get a lot of these almutens from many references but not the applications of them. Ho I wish!
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al Habashi



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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi astrojin

i've only just begun looking into omar, and more for the stuff on directions, to be honest.

i haven't begun calculating or delineating the compound almutems, but i am intrigued. i do Dorotheus-Aboaly-Abu Mashar type astrology and the compound almutem as some kind of overall significator with whom the buck stops, so to speak, might beat the "majority rule" motif of Aboaly's crowd of significators. as the only compound almutem i do use is that of the hylegical places, produces the almutem figuris with influence over the quality of mind, complexion and so on, the compound almutems of the themes, such as siblings, the spouse etc., may well turn out to be equally dominant in their arenas. they may, however, just add another level of admixture and qualification, which i for one would not find useful!

the schmidt-hand gang recommend looking at Bonatus's 4th saying to define omar's 14 ways of linking the compound almutems with the LAC. however, i am a little stuck with a few of the configurations listed in Bonatus. what do you imagine "10. Permission - Galaalocir", "11. Restoring Virtue or Disposition - Alteat", "12. Withdrawing Virtue - Dalfa Alchoa", and "13. Withdrawing Disposition - Daffaredbit" refer to? clearly the gist is that we must judge the planet by the various considerations listed by Abu Mashar, al-Biruni, ibn Ezra et al., and this use of the donor set of planetary relationships, for instance, can give real colour to anthropomorphised celestial configurations. i guess that Bonatus simply garbled the Arabic, but when Dalfa Alchoa is so similar to daf'al quwwa, B's attribution of "Withdrawing Virtue" to the former seems just too far from "Pushing Power", the translation of the latter.

anyway, have fun and keep in touch

love and peace

al habashi
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sasha_i



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Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: Astrology of the compound Almuten Reply with quote

Quote:
Does anybody have any luck in using compound almuten in delineating natal charts? Omar of Tiberias ("Three Books of Nativities") and later authors (Montulmo, Schoner, etc.) mentioned many of these almutens (almuten of mother, father, substance, chart, etc.). You get a lot of these almutens from many references but not the applications of them. Ho I wish!


Hello,

I think that the almuten is in some way a strange instrument. you see from what I found it represents practically a combination of different criteria. on one hand you have dignity of the planets combined with house cusp, on the other hand you have hairesis (or sect). it is a mixture that is nothing but melange. criteria for strenght combined with criteria for good working/manifestation of the planets, or with criteria of dignity.
in conclusion I think that the almuten is something good in intention but confuse in effects. I dont't know for sure what do I obtain after using an almuten. but I'm open for suggestion.


Last edited by sasha_i on Tue May 09, 2006 1:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Tom
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Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think that the almuten is something good in intention but confuse in effects. I dont't know for sure what do I obtain after using an almuten. but I'm open for suggestion.


The alumten of a house cusp is sometimes used as the ruler of that house in lieu of the lord of the particular sign. For example. Most, if not all, of Aries in a day chart would have the Sun as almuten. The Sun is the exaltation ruler and triplicity ruler of fire in the daytime. Instead of using Mars as the house ruler try using the Sun. I don't know that I would do this in a horary, unless I needed Mars for something else.

Tom

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sasha_i



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Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again,

I have to make more clear my point of view.
You see when you delineate the almuten you have to add points, score to the planets according to essential dignity, position of the planets in houses, to give points also to the planet of the day, hour. there is also possible to take in consideration house cusp or lots (but in this case I can't see how can one could assign essential dignity to house cusp or lots); others add negative points to a planet that is retrograde, etc.

What I want to say is that I can't understand the quality of the result. a planet that is what? the strongest, the most benefic, the one that is more efficient?
The ambiguity of the result comes from the method used. you simply can't combine essential dignity with the position in house, to combine planets with house cusp or lots. at least in this manner.

But as I told you I am open for suggestions.
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Tom
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Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're using different definitions. The almuten aka the alutem is the planet that has the most essential dignity in a particular degree of the zodiac. The point system (rulership:5, exaltation: 4; triplicity:3; term:2; face:1) is used to determine that. So if the Sun is 21 Aries in a day chart the Sun gets 4 points for being in exaltation, and 3 points for being in triplicity, and 1 for being in face for a total of 8. Mars, the domicile ruler gets 5 for being the domicile ruler. 8 is more than 5 therefore the Sun is the almuten or strongest planet at 21 degrees Aries. I've never heard of using the parts, house position, or planetary hours since almuten is determined strictly by essential dignity.

Let's say the native has 21 Aries on the MC and is having career difficulties. The chart might show a debilitated Mars, but a stronger Sun. Instead of looking for Mars like positions, the native might be better off in solar type work.

The quality of the result is strength as shown by essential dignity. In most cases the almuten and domicile ruler will be the same. When they are different it might be worthwhile to see if substituting the almuten for the domicile ruler works better.

Tom
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sasha_i



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Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We're using different definitions. The almuten aka the alutem is the planet that has the most essential dignity in a particular degree of the zodiac. The point system (rulership:5, exaltation: 4; triplicity:3; term:2; face:1) is used to determine that. So if the Sun is 21 Aries in a day chart the Sun gets 4 points for being in exaltation, and 3 points for being in triplicity, and 1 for being in face for a total of 8. Mars, the domicile ruler gets 5 for being the domicile ruler. 8 is more than 5 therefore the Sun is the almuten or strongest planet at 21 degrees Aries. I've never heard of using the parts, house position, or planetary hours since almuten is determined strictly by essential dignity.


If I'm not wrong, you say that almuten is the same with adding points according to essential dignity of the planets. I can accept that. this sort of almuten is probably the only one acceptable, but it has also weak points.

But take for example the almuten of the chart used by Ibn Ezra, who takes in consideration the Sun, the Moon, Ascendent, Pt Fortune, Prenatal Syz Moon; or Omar's almuten for travel: Mars, house cusp 9, dispositor of house cusp 9, part of land journey, dispositor of part of land journey.
In this cases for each planet is given points according to essential dignity of the planets, but also accordind with the position of the planets in the house (Ibn Ezra:a planet in 10 house has 11 points, in the 12 house 2 points; Lilly: in the 10 house 5 points; in the 12 house -5 points), according to the relation of planet to Sun (Lilly: cazimi 5 points; combust -5 points); another example: Pt of Fortune in 10 house 5 points, in taurus 5 points, but in scorpio -5 points, conjunction with Regulus 6 points (Lilly). I could go on like this but I will stop here.
In the end adding all the points of the planets you get the almuten.
But can you compare the 5 points of Sun in Leo, with the 5 points of Moon in Cancer, or with 10 in house 10, 5 points of Pt of Fortune in taurus? can you put equal between 5 points in house and 5 points in Leo?

What do I obtain by adding all this points?That's the question
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Tom
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Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is getting a bit confusing. The word "almuten" or "almutem" is generally associated with the degrees of the zodiac as in the example I just gave. I believe, but I'm away from my reference books at the moment, that the word is a corruption of an Arabic word that meant "ruler." Each degree has a "ruler" or planet that has more strength in that degree than any other.

What Ibn Ezra is doing is entirely different than determining which planet is strongest at a particular degree despite the use of the same name. In his system the almuten (ruler) of the chart is the strongest planet in the chart. It has nothing to do with degrees of the zodiac per se. He adds up essential and accidental dignity in order to make his determination. This is fine, but it is not what is usually meant by almuten. In general when that word is used it signifies the ruler of a degree of the zodiac, which is determined by essential dignity alone. Ibn Ezra is doing something different.


Quote:
But can you compare the 5 points of Sun in Leo, with the 5 points of Moon in Cancer, or with 10 in house 10, 5 points of Pt of Fortune in taurus? can you put equal between 5 points in house and 5 points in Leo?

What do I obtain by adding all this points?That's the question


The point system is a handy tool, but little else. It helps determine planetary strength. Nowhere in Christian Astrology for example does Lilly say anything like, "Well Jupiter is a four but Saturn is a 7 so Saturn ..."

A planet is given 5 points for being in rulership so the Moon in Cancer is no different in that respect than the Sun in Leo. Both are strong and if that is all the essential dignity they have they are of equal strength in that chart.

What you get, when you add up the points, is a rough idea of which planet might be stronger in a chart.

Tom
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Tom
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Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is getting a bit confusing. The word "almuten" or "almutem" is generally associated with the degrees of the zodiac as in the example I just gave. I believe, but I'm away from my reference books at the moment, that the word is a corruption of an Arabic word that meant "ruler." Each degree has a "ruler" or planet that has more strength in that degree than any other.

What Ibn Ezra is doing is entirely different than determining which planet is strongest at a particular degree despite the use of the same name. In his system the almuten (ruler) of the chart is the strongest planet in the chart. It has nothing to do with degrees of the zodiac per se. He adds up essential and accidental dignity in order to make his determination. This is fine, but it is not what is usually meant by almuten. In general when that word is used it signifies the ruler of a degree of the zodiac, which is determined by essential dignity alone. Ibn Ezra is doing something different.


Quote:
But can you compare the 5 points of Sun in Leo, with the 5 points of Moon in Cancer, or with 10 in house 10, 5 points of Pt of Fortune in taurus? can you put equal between 5 points in house and 5 points in Leo?

What do I obtain by adding all this points?That's the question


The point system is a handy tool, but little else. It helps determine planetary strength. Nowhere in Christian Astrology for example does Lilly say anything like, "Well Jupiter is a four but Saturn is a 7 so Saturn ..."

A planet is given 5 points for being in rulership so the Moon in Cancer is no different in that respect than the Sun in Leo. Both are strong and if that is all the essential dignity they have they are of equal strength in that chart.

What you get, when you add up the points, is a rough idea of which planet might be stronger in a chart.

Tom
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sasha_i



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Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Each degree has a "ruler" or planet that has more strength in that degree than any other.


So you say that almuten is a ruler that has more strength in some degree than any other.
Now, this ruler is like a governor, in metaphorical sense, who controls and decides in all the affairs of land. But there are also other rulers who control their territory, and so the little one must obey the bigger one. Is in some way a vassal system from medieval times. I do hope that my interpretation is correct.

Let us now analyze together the following case:
We have the MC in 22 Aries, Jupiter in 23 Aries; Sun is in 24 Gemini in the 12 house, and Mars in 28 Taurus. Saturn is in 25 Pisces.
Is it Sun strongest planet at 22 Aries? Or is it Mars? Should a person look for a solar type work?
Perhaps not. Why Jupiter shouldn’t be the strongest?

But let’s take another example. A person has 21 Aries on the MC. The Sun is in 21 Aries.
Is the Sun the strongest planet at 21 Aries?
Perhaps yes.

Conclusion. Is this almuten an instrument that shows the strength of the planets?
Yes and no, or depends.

I imagine essential dignity more like this:
plains, mountains, or lakes and seas. Planets like travelers of destiny, wandering from a country to another. Sometimes travelling into lands where they feel like home (like singers travelling into the land of music, or warriors into the land of competitions), sometimes into hostile lands (for example an unarmed man going through a battle field).

Conclusion. I find more valuable to say that a planet having essential dignity can manifest stronger its nature.
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Tom
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Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we have to be a bit careful when we look at some of the simple examples given in posts. I gave the example of using the almuten of the 10th as opposed to the domicile ruler to determine career. This is obviously an oversimplified example of one possible way to use the almuten, not as a general, much less ironclad, rule.


For clarification: the almuten has more ESSENTIAL dignity at a particlular degree of the zodiac than any other planet. That is the definition; it is not subject to review. In most cases the almuten and the domiile ruler are one and the same.


Quote:
Let us now analyze together the following case:
We have the MC in 22 Aries, Jupiter in 23 Aries; Sun is in 24 Gemini in the 12 house, and Mars in 28 Taurus. Saturn is in 25 Pisces.
Is it Sun strongest planet at 22 Aries? Or is it Mars? Should a person look for a solar type work?

Perhaps not. Why Jupiter shouldn’t be the strongest?


Because in a day chart Jupiter has zero essential dignity at 23 Aries. He is therefore peregrine. Peregrine planets are weak. He has essential dignity by virtue of his being angular and conjunct the ASC. But being peregrine makes him weak. Any influence he has due to his angularity will be minimal or at least non-Jupiterian because of his inherent (essential) inability to be like Jupiter. All the accidental dignity in the chart cannot make an essentially weak planet strong.

Quote:
But let’s take another example. A person has 21 Aries on the MC. The Sun is in 21 Aries. Is the Sun the strongest planet at 21 Aries?
Perhaps yes.


Perphaps? At 21 Aries the Sun is in exaltation, triplicity and face. At 21 Aries there are no stronger planets. Not even Mars at 21 Aries has more essential dignity than the Sun at 21 Aries in a day chart.

This isn't difficult, and it isn't arbitrary or subject to opinion. Essential dignity can be determined quickly, and accurately in any chart. The planet's effectiveness or influence can be helped or hindered by accidental dignity, but the essential dignity and hence the almuten is easily determined.


Quote:
Conclusion. Is this almuten an instrument that shows the strength of the planets? Yes and no, or depends.


Once more: the almuten has a defintion. This definition is not subject to opinion. It is clear as day. The planet with the most essential dignity in a particular degree is the almuten of that degree. End of story. There are two kinds of dignity, essential and accidental: both are used to determine planetary srength. Opinions as to the veracity of this are spurious. These are the defintions.

Tom
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Ben



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Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

What I would add to this discussion is that the almuten (from the Arabic al-mubtazz, "the winner") does not show strength. It shows authority. An authority can be strong or weak.

The almuten of a single degree is the one who has the most authority over whatever the degree signifies, no matter whether the almuten is in a good or bad condition. The almuten over that degree will be a (or the) the default source of the signification. If it is in a good condition (like being in its own domicile, etc.) it will not only be authoritative but successful. If it is in a bad condition it will be authoritative but unsuccessful.

It is like a traditional family. The family authority comes from the father -- he is the one in charge, the almuten. But maybe he is somehow debilitated, so that although his rules are the default rules, other family members must take up the slack. They may be competent in their own way, but their authority is weaker. If the teenage daughter has to run the household, this is different from having the natural parent do it, in a variety of ways.

So if we are looking at the Ascendant, the almuten will be a (or the) default source of the native's attempt to be happy and live a good life. If it is in good shape, it will not only be the default authority, but it will be successful. If not, then although it is the default authority (and will make a general statement about the native's happiness), it will be less successful, and we will have to look at rulers with less authority (exaltation, triplicity, term, decan). They will not be as authoritative and pervasive and constant, but they will be able to do something.

Best,
Ben
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astrojin



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Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Dr Ben Dykes,

Almuten = planet that has most authority over something (asc, mc, house cusp, arabic part, points, planet, etc.) which itself could be srong or weak, effective or ineffective. Wow, I like this definition the most!!! I shall remember this. I have been toying over the definition of almutem and trying to get the right words, and this is it!!! Thank you.

You mentioned that Almuten originated from the arabic word Al-Mubtaz. I thought it originated from the arabic word Al-Matiin (the one with extreme power)?
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###



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Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea of authority rather than strength is very helpful and sounds accurate. Strength seems to be more a matter of house placement, such as angular or cadent.

I think I like ‘voice’ even more than 'authority'. If the almuten is "the winner" it’s easy to imagine that for its prize the winner is granted a voice and a say in matters.
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Tom
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Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What I would add to this discussion is that the almuten (from the Arabic al-mubtazz, "the winner") does not show strength. It shows authority. An authority can be strong or weak.



OK I can see where some of the misunderstandings might be. The almuten of a degree never changes. It doesn't matter where the planet is, that planet is the almuten of a particular degree. So if the ASC were at 21 Aries in a day chart, the Sun is almuten whether the Sun is in Leo, or Cancer or Libra or even Aries itself. In this way it is like a domicile ruler. The Sun rules Leo, for example, regardless of where the Sun is in a chart.

If the Sun were actually posited at the almuten degree the Sun would be very powerful. In the above example, if the Sun were posited in Libra, the Sun would have no essential dignity, but would still be the almuten of 21 Aries. The almuten degree doesn't make the Sun powerful, it marks the place where the Sun is very influential or as Ben would say "has authority."

Tom



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