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Old books and USA
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Kim Farnell



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 256

Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I collect these types of books, as for rarity, you don't say what editions you have or the dates of printing. This matters with Alan Leo because the green manuals went through a lot of revisions and some of the early printings are now rare.

Quote:
The Radix System and Electional Astrology by Robson.


Reprinted and easy to find.

Quote:
The Manual of Astrology, How to make and read your own horoscope by Sepharial,


First one has stayed almost constantly in print since it was first published. Easy to find. Second one not rare, but certainly uncommon. Has been reprinted (I think from memory) but not incredibly easily available. An early edition of either would be more valuable (financially and otherwise.)

Quote:
The Foundations Of Astrology and Some Principles of Horoscopic Delineation by CEO Carter,


Stayed in print through the Theosophical Society. They almost pay you to take them away. Even an early edition doesn't add much because as far as I know, no major revisions were made.

Quote:
Commonsense Astrology by Louis De Wohl, Astrology


Not rare but uncommon. De Wohl's stuff is hard to get hold off but not many people try.

Quote:
It's Practical Application translated from dutch by E. Parker


Fairly common.

Quote:
and two tiny books by Alan Leo- one on Horary the other a book of chart data.


The green (they weren't all green in the first edition) manuals vary as to rarity. These two are fairly easy to get hold of and pop up on Ebay regularly. I see you have a late reprint for NN.

(I could value these, but as you're not interested in that aspect...I simply mention it in case someone's lurking and has an obscure book of their own.)

Ashmand's Ptolemy may have been rare then, but isn't now.

Quote:
His reference for this is Modern Astrology, Vol 1,Old series and The Sphinx, an American monthly edited by Catherine H Thompson vols i and ii 1899 to June 1900 ...and attributes this to Zadkiels The Future, Feb - Dec 1892 ...Is this an interesting find, or has this info from this book come to light before?


It was a common reference for some time. Quoting the Sphinx is a bit irrelevant, as the data there was taken from MA. Zadkiel predates the MA reference. The obvious thing to do would be to check the references for sources. (Though finding a copy of the Sphinx would be a minor miracle.) But as you've now flounced off because no-one's done it for you, and I don't have any Neptune...

Thompson was English btw, though she ended up in Boston.

Tom!

I have a copy of The Sphinx. You can't have it as it took me forever to find and I've never seen another copy. But we can talk about this elsewhere...

Kim

Edited because I got Zadkiel back to front.

The spaces between my words contain only space (just in case.)
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Tom
Moderator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3435
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kim,

Quote:
I have a copy of The Sphinx. You can't have it as it took me forever to find and I've never seen another copy. But we can talk about this elsewhere...


I'm green with envy. I probably knew at one time that Thompson was born and educated in England. My point was that she became famous for her astrology in America, where she was one of a handful of prominent astrologers taught by Luke Broughton (also born in England).

Thompson's personality was probably difficult. Almost everything I know about her comes from Karen Christino's books on Evangeline Adams. She married a wealthy American, lived with him in Boston, and had homes in Newport and New York City. Newport, Rhode Island, was the playground of the idle rich in the late 19th century. It was populated by people like the Astors and other members of the super rich whose lives revolved around attending the right parties. One of the descendants of John Jacob Astor was given a plot of land in Florida by an supporter so Astor could establish residency and be appointed to the US Senate (this was before direct election of US Senators. Members were appointed by the various state legislators). He claimed he was too intelligent for the Senate, and prefered to lounge on his yacht. He kept the land, however.

Thompson had children but her husband deserted her; she reportedly remained bitter and for the rest of her life hated men. She was a successful financial astrologer and a cousin whom she counseled struck it rich with investments. He left her $100,000 in his will, but his estate contested the will and used her association with astrology against her. She died peniless in 1934.

Take a peek at her chart:

April 10, 1858
6:52:01 AM LMT
London, England

How did you find "The Sphinx?" Robert Hand spoke at my astrology group a few weeks ago and he related the story about how he bought a box of old astrology books and found an originals of Broughton's The Elements of Astrology and W.H. Chaney's Primer of Astrology (I have that one, but I paid for it). Oh well at least they're in the hands of someone who appreciates them.

Tom
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Kim Farnell



Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 256

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll talk to you about Catherine Thompson elsewhere soon.

Quote:
How did you find "The Sphinx?"


I'm good at finding obscure things on Ebay Very Happy

Kim
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 945
Location: Australia

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I think about every now and then is what would happen to my books if I died suddenly. My parents would have no interest in having them and would probably give them all to the closest charity. That would be okay for most of them but there are some I wouldn't be too happy about seeing in a $1 bin. Okay, so I would be dead and it wouldn't matter but I still keep thinking I should do something. I don't have that many but I have a couple of originals from the last Sepherial and a signed Ivy Jacobson original that I am fond of since she was originally from my home of Brisbane. I have quite a few original astrology books from the 1930's too. But the one that really worries me is my 1659 copy of 'Christian Astrology'. I am not silly enough to have it stuck on my bookshelves among all the other books. It lives in a very sturdy box as it is quite fragile, as you can imagine, for a book that is about 350 years old. It is almost worth insuring since it is worth more than anything else I own. Hopefully anyone who went through my stuff would realise its value, particularly when they see the invoice showing how much it cost.
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thankfully if I died my kids would get my books and there is no way they'd end up in the bargain bin, well except maybe some of the trashy novels, but I can live with that!

You could will them to some organization or person who would make good use of them, or tell your family NOW that you want those particular pieces treated with a bit of dignity. People do generally listen to such requests even if they dont quite understand, because they want their own things treated well.

Granny
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"edited by Catherine H Thompson vols i and ii 1899 to June 1900 "

By the way wasn't Catherine H Thompson one of Evangeline Adams teachers? IIRC???

Granny
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Philip Graves



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 436
Location: Europe

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:22 pm    Post subject: Alan Leo's recommendation of the first issue of 'The Sphinx' Reply with quote

In 'Modern Astrology' August 1899, page 6, which I happen to have in front of me, Alan Leo actively encouraged his readers to purchase the very first issue of 'The Sphinx'. Hardly surprising when you go on to see that he and Sepharial, and some other English astrologers, were among those who wrote articles for it, even though it was not based in the British Isles at all. Since in this day and age we don't generally see editors of one magazine advertising a rival one without money being changed hands, this almost makes me wonder if Leo had a hand in launching the whole magazine or owned a share of its publishing company, but perhaps this would be an anachronistically cynicism-informed view and he was just doing a friend he admired a favour and humanistically promoting the cause of the propagation of astrological learning near and far? We can confidently state with hindsight that his optimism for the endurance of the magazine, like the vast majority of other early astrological magazines, was misplaced. Regardless, you have to love some of the charming article titles here....

'The Sphinx, which is the title of the new American Astrological Magazine, is just to hand. The able editor, Mrs. Catherine H. Thompson, may be justly proud of her first production. If the contents continue up to the standard of the articles contained in this first number, then its success is assured. The following is the title of the articles in the first issue: "Astrology of To-day," by Gabriel; "The Uses of Astrology," by Sepharial; "Causerie of the Celt," by Kymry; "Why Socialism cannot Eventuate," by Heinrich Daath; "Prophetic Hieroglyphics," by Alan Leo; "Come over into Macedonia and Help us," by Asmothiel; "Horoscope of Dreyfus," by Kymry; "Neptune in the Nursery," by Hermes; "The Lunar Eclipse," by Hazelrigg; "Birthday Information," by Astor; and "A Grammar of Astrology," by Mrs. Thompson, assisted by J.G. Dalton. Our readers will do well to send for a sample copy. Address: The Sphinx Publishing Co., Boston, Mass., U.S.A.'
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Philip Graves



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 436
Location: Europe

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Sue"]One thing I think about every now and then is what would happen to my books if I died suddenly. My parents would have no interest in having them and would probably give them all to the closest charity. That would be okay for most of them but there are some I wouldn't be too happy about seeing in a $1 bin.[/quote]

Hello Sue!

I have also thought about this. I only began collecting astrology books about three years ago, though I already had about a hundred or so as working (and learning) books before then. But I have put a lot of time and effort in the last three years into piecing together a collection of classics (though I am now about to run out of money, I'll almost certainly get back to it if I have more again in the future) from disparate second-hand and new sources, and believe passionately in having this kept together for the future use of astrologers, astrological students, astrological historians, etc..

Having said that, if it hadn't been for other people's collections ending up in the bookstores I wouldn't have been able to start one of my own... but I'd much rather see rare astrology books being kept accessible as a private library to future astrologers than dissipated to general antiquarian book collectors who have an interest in collecting anything rare, old, and preferably with pretty coloured plates, then hoarding it for generations, reducing its accessibility to people who are able and willing to spend the time to understand its astrological contents.

Here in Sweden, there are strict laws relating to inheritance. Nobody is allowed to leave a will: whatever one owns is distributed automatically to relatives in pre-set proportions by state laws. I don't yet know if my eight-week-old daughter will take any interest in astrology when she is old enough to understand it, but given the disparity between male and female life expectancy it is statistically probable that my wife will inherit my collection in the first instance. She might find this to be clutter she has no use for by that stage, and if our daughter has no interest in the subject it might be a good idea to make a living donation to a financially solvent, stable public or astrological institutional library before then, preferably one that has a 'no throwing out or selling off' policy on astrology books.

Just some personal thoughts on the subject anyhow!

Philip
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 945
Location: Australia

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Having said that, if it hadn't been for other people's collections ending up in the bookstores I wouldn't have been able to start one of my own...


Yes, very good point. I only have the collection I have because others got rid of theirs.

Quote:
I'd much rather see rare astrology books being kept accessible as a private library to future astrologers than dissipated to general antiquarian book collectors who have an interest in collecting anything rare, old, and preferably with pretty coloured plates, then hoarding it for generations, reducing its accessibility to people who are able and willing to spend the time to understand its astrological contents.


I like the idea of being able to bequeath my collection to a place that makes the library available to others. They problem is that most of the astrological associations are run by people who do it voluntarily. They come and go and it is often difficult to guarantee the continuity of these associations. It is particularly difficult in Australia where our numbers are small and the vast distances are an issue. Universities are ideal for bequeathing collections but, given the subject matter, not too many people will want access to them. My classics and ancient history library is probably more substantial than my astrology library though, and I know they would want those books. After a couple of very close calls with my mortality I got my best friend to promise to sort out the issue of my books if I die before her. Perhaps I should start trying to inculcate one of my ten nieces and nephews into the ways of astrology. I feel that my best chance would be with the youngest, who is only two months old, because her mother is the only one in my family who is interested in what I do and is always asking me astrological questions. My sister in law is French so my niece will be bilingual and will be able to read all of those wonderful French astrology texts that I can't read.
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might consider donating to Andre Nortons library, it is a library for writers, rare and odd books for research. I dont recall, but I believe its in Kentucky. And yes it is functional though she has past to her next incarnation.

Granny
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