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Bagdad Birthchart

 
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graelhaven



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 82

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:32 pm    Post subject: Bagdad Birthchart Reply with quote

I saw an article that listed the bagdad birthchart as saturtay, july 31,762 in the julian calendar, I went to astro.com to bring up a chart to print and it has Gregorian calendar, does anyone know the adjustment? I cant find the article now. sigh... thanks, MissB
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3438
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the Gregorian calendar went into effect (except in England) during the 16th century, 11 days were added to the calendar. However, the adjustment for a date in 762 AD may be less.

You might have to do an internet search. I may have the Baghdad chart at home or the data. I'll have to look.

Tom
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graelhaven



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 82

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks tom, the data looks close to what I recall on the chart just moving it from tuesday the 31 to Saturday the 4th, august, but seems to be about a half degree off on what was listed on the chart I saw, I'm thinking because the ancients rounded to whole numbers? MissB
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Beth,

This turned out to be a little more difficult that I imagined. My reference is James Holden's A History of Horoscopic Astrolgy. He gives the same date as you do without referring to which calendar. I looked for a note or reference by the author to explain how he determined his dates, but I didn't find one.

He says this about the founding of the city: "The earliest important astrologer among the Arabs of whom we have any information was Nawbakht the Persian (c. 679 - 777), who was court astrologer to the Caliph al-Mansur (d. 775). He does not seem to have written any books, but history records that he was selected to head up a group of astrologers to make the election for the refounding of the city of Baghdad on July 31, 762 at about 2 PM (Sagittarius rising in the elction chart)."

I ran a few charts. One was for the above date and time using the Gregorian calendar, and one using July 31 Julian Calendar, and one for Aug 5, Gregorian. The only one that came up with Sagittarius rising at 2 PM LMT was the July 31 Gregorian. So, unless I made a mistake, (never too far from my thoughts), I think the July 31 Gregorian may be accurate.

You said your source stated Julian calendar, though. Are you certain? I've checked all my sources at home; this is all I can find. I have a friend who does a lot of mundane astrology. He may be able to help. I'll check with him.

Tom[/i]
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Beth,

I want to retract something I wrote above. For some reason, when I changed dates on Solar Fire from July 31, it switched to GMT (although it still said LMT but noted +0:00 hrs) and I didn't catch it. This "adjustment" of course changed the ASC and I didn't get the Sagittarius ASC I should get when we move only five days from July 31 when 0 degrees Sagittarius was rising. In other words, no matter which date we use (to a point), on or after 31 July, Sagittarius rises fulfilling Holden's requirement.

I found that Solar Fire automatically calculates any date before 14 Oct 1582 as Old Style (Julian). At least that's the option I had checked long ago. Out of curiosity, I ran the chart on Janus software, and Janus, too, calculates the chart using the Julian calendar, and, obviously, gives me the same chart.

I don't know what software you have, but if you are required to specify a calendar for old dates (you might not have to; check the help file), usually if you type OS after the date it makes the adjustment. Some programs might respond to JC (Julian Calendar) instead of OS. If you have to play with it, the chart has 0 Sagittarius 18 rising, The MC is 10 Virgo 43, the Moon is 27 Libra 16, and the Sun is at 10 Leo 45. Fooling around until you get to these positions will give you the chart on any software. Allow a minute or two difference. I find Solar Fire and Janus often show a difference of about one minute of arc.

Good Luck.

Tom
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