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Juno, Calendars and 20th Century History.
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to give you further food for thought, the Pilgrims, the first stable colony in the US, (Jamestown disappeared) set out for America on 16 September 1620 (old calendar) from Plymouth England or 23 Virgo Sun and 22 Virgo Neptune

on 11 september 1941 the north Node was at 22 Virgo

but really the strong T square with Sun at 18 Virgo, Pluto at 12 SAg and Saturn at 14 Gemini, was pretty darn ugly, dont you think? and the Mars oppositions Moon and North Node was not pretty either. Then Venus moving to oppose Uranus? 11 sept 2001 had several less than kind application of aspects... anyway, more food for thought..

Granny
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Monk



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 221
Location: London

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Granny Scott,
Thanks for your reply, when i can be able to look at this i'm sure it is interesting.
At the moment i feel lost, firstly i would like to heal the connection between myself and this forum.....i know i am not an astrologer like what is needed for the scope of intellect and knowledge of astrologers that sit on this forum.
I see as i feel, but as the i know how how much information and study is involved to be a top class astrologer, where as i am a psychic, that is in the middle of two different groups, obviously i dont feel comfortable, some is due to my fault, and some is due to intellect being suspicious and wary of how i process information.
I can go off the boil with a process which i am not in control of, astrology charts to me have a fascination that sometimes can be of interest to astrologers.
I value all religions, especially those that started these religions.
Am i trying to start an impression that Pope Gregory used astrology all the time....certainly not! For myself i have to experience the mood of the time, and i feel that Pope Gregory didnt think that astrology when linked to a calendar was the same as how he felt about astrology in general.
But as always the way with beliefs, and i must admit that i am wary of electional astrology, because we dont know what we are doing yet, i'm not sure what problems this holds for us today!
But i am very optimistic with our collective journey, and as long as we always try to heal and not destroy, we will be okay!
This is a very brainy forum that i truly respect, Psychics will be always held in suspicion which i agree with.
Probably half i write has no connection with astrologers, but i am really trying to bridge the gap.
I dont get spooked over human involvement in symbolism, that can be changed, i see it all the time, but it can be a problem in how i try to show this.
Lets look at some light hearted symbolism between Hollywood and people who like scary movies!
The first Omen film was released on 6th June 1976, so lighthearted people would get a tingle up the spine as it was 666, the remake was released on 06/06/06 to promote the same harmless sensation.
But we know some people take the book of revelations so seriously and to the extreme.
Terrorists do this by way of the internet, we know what they show if we are idiots enough to look!
However brainy we are superstition can make us wary of people who use astrology differently, and so you should be!
I'm not a doomsday person, okay we have a lot of problems today but if we keep on trying, and trying to understand each other, the dark clouds will go away in time.
Sometimes i scare people by showing symbolism that have been activated by humans.....I'm sure we can deal with that, working out what astrology means without human involvement and getting to the real bottom of all myths and legends, i can see that taking some time!
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one have been greatly enjoying your observations; I donít think you need to acquiesce to others thoughts, if you feel the need to explain yourself further I would be reading your posts to enjoy the interesting things you express, not from any form of criticism. You have made some interesting observations, others have different experiences, neither is better or worse than the other, merely the observations of different people.

I would hope one could disagree without being disagreeable, but since I know what a temper I have Iím certainly not one to talk. In any case, please keep writing, it isn't about making your stuff fit others ideas, its about expressing your thoughts and listening to others thoughts.

Granny
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Monk



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 221
Location: London

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Granny Scott,
thank you for your kind words, but i do realise i need to handle emotional responses better, although i may have merit with astrologers for a while.
Logic has to rule the my emotional side.
I'm going to put my natal details down, not to be important....that makes me feel sick, but in the hope this will bring forward someone better than myself who can bridge the gap between psychics and logical astrology.
I dont have any aspirations, but i do have a motive which is so strong which is karma astrology, i worry so much that i am forced to write about religion, yet i am very religious....it really burns me, and when i do see clearly, it hurts me when it is about religion.
Writing about religion can cause people to go off their head, i wouldnt want that....it is so hard for me to talk about this difficult subject.
For many months there has been a prompting to find things out over our calendars which left me very angry....i truly didnt want to look in this direction...it was like toothache!
Because of this, perhaps i involved myself in threads that i shouldnt have, i know i upset Tom on a thread that needed logic, i really am sorry, but i was so angry with myself being pushed within myself to write about religion, and knowing i hadnt found what i needed to to make it clear to astrologers.....hell when i am forced to talk about religion, hopefully i can raise a smile as my face is like a bull dog chewing a wasp, i hate talking about religion!
But to have a balanced view point, i wish to leave it up to logic, so this is why it write freely to you, you i respect so much.
I dont need an astrologer to see that i have a deep religious background, i know that myself but i would like to be an experiment, so that the bridge in between can be looked at if you experience better psychics than myself.
Be careful in analysis with my chart as i do face my demons, and i dont trust myself either, but i am sincere whatever my problems.
I only put my details on this forum because i want to close the gap and dont want to be your only one, so please use your analysis, i do not like being in the limelight even if i have a Regulus M.C.
I am filled with karma, so i feel a need to release it, with religious beliefs.
If i look too sincere, then i can only say that it is a gift from England who look after disabled people, perhaps my view would change if i couldnt feed myself!
Perhaps it may help, between psychics and the logic of astrologers, lets try!
If you want to look at impulses look at quintiles, Moon, Saturn, Chiron, Dwarf planet Ceres, and Venus, and change to south mean node.
Ironic the symbol of Sirius.
Wednesday 8th August 1956 at 13:59pm. in London. The time is accurate, my father was a mason, but dont consider that, i dont do oaths, but wouldnt want to hurt them, as with any religion.
Perhaps we can help each other, my motive is purely karma.
I didnt choose the thread name of monk for nothing, but i am very emotional, and a private person.
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Monk



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 221
Location: London

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In finding what i needed regarding calendars, this has created an internal conflict and emotions, which needs a period of time for self healing.
Hopefully this process will only take weeks.
During this process i need space between myself and forums.
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Monk



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 221
Location: London

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ESOTERIC ASTROLOGY.
I would have to say as a psychic, then i should shut up for a few weeks, as this needs logical thought, but as physically ill as i am, there is a need to try to bridge a gap, i feel a little better today.
Pope Gregory probably had a motive that aligning Sirius to the stroke of New year, was probably to introduce one religion, with his understanding of ancient knowledge to how this was achieved, by way of calendars and our perception of time.
Although ancient calendars may have influenced him, such as the Coptic calendar.....obviously he used projected fixed stars.
We know that the "Rosetta Stone" was carved in 196 B.C., when Greeks understood the Egyptian "Picture Writing".
This understanding was lost till 1799, when French soldiers found the Rosetta Stone, thus as the same thing was written in ancient Egyptian, and Greek we where able to learn much more of the philosophy of the Egyptians. We may then have seen the power of a direct paran, in regards to using the projected fixed star way, leading to better understanding. This needs much more research.
The prime meridian of the world is Greenwich, London, Kent, U.K., with longitude, which controls time.
The Basis of longitude, the prime meridian, was established in 1851 although adopted at an international conference in 1884, when Victorian England was at the height of world power. For a small island we may think this is strange!
The basis of being idealistic without being patriotic only performs without discrimination in our modern era, before perhaps any number of countries may have perceived the power of Sirius but not been able to put it to full use in relation to all.
At the moment i dont want to go into "Time Zones", leave that to another day when i feel more logical and rested.
Lets look at the principle of esoteric Sirius astrology.
We go to a number of very different astrologers for this, Blavatsky,Theosophists and Alice Bailey.
We can discuss the spiritual values of Sirius later.
Lets look at the practical things that may happen when Sirius is aligned to our calender by Egyptian Parans.
The 1st Jan is a marker of New Year that started with Sosigenes.
Pope Gregory it would seem aligned our calendar to Sirius by projected fixed stars....although i think this is a weaker alignment than Egyptian Paran.
As luck would have it, this means that the Egyptian paran came into effect, in regards to Sirius and our calendar within a few centuries.
The Victorian Age, like no other modern age was responsible for the beginnings of most scientific discoveries.
Be careful in analysis of who and why any country used Sirius, to see what it means today needs an idealistic approach for the needs of all countries, so lets not point fingers....if we do this it is negative, to how we approach this today with our problems.
The Egyptians valued Sirius within a calendar and was a great civilization.
The Victorians controlled time by the Greenwich observatory.
The Egyptian paran in line with Greenwich, London, Kent, UK. with Sirius and our calendar started in 1802, but obviously not for all years, being a gradual process.
This gradual process means that by 1818, Sirius aligned with Greenwich every New Year till 1st Jan 1904.....Just after the Victorian Era when Englands Power began to falter!
Now we only experience some years when this aligns, the last being in 2097.
This is an interesting factor that needs a lot more research.
A lot of astrologers dont study fixed stars as they can have two meanings, the spiritual stars always have a nemesis if we dont follow them in an idealistic way that benefits all.
Lets look at the nemesis of Sirius....it could be interesting!
Of great importance to ancient Egyptians was the fact that the heliacal rising of Sirius occurred nearly simultaneously with the yearly flooding of the Nile.
A factor that made them a great civilization, as we know it takes a lot of effort to be hunter/gatherers, and leaves very little time for great philosophers/science, as knowing when flooding occurred means they planted crops that sustained the empire, thus leaving room for gifted individuals to "Think".
We also must ponder the Sothis Cycle as this made us capable of keeping track of time periods much longer than a year.
Interestingly, the association of Sirius with an abundence of water appears elswhere than Egypt in the ancient world as well.
In fact, it is possible that Sirius was associated with deluges in general.
The Romans of the first century AD thought the influence of Sirius brought highly destructive weather. Further associations of Sirius with water themes occurs in the Zend-Avesta, which calls Tishtriya (or Sirius) the author of rain and the daemon of dryness. According to the Zend-Avesta, the supreme god once made Tishtriya cause a massive flood as punishment for mens wickedness and corruption.
could this be its nemesis.....according to the Zoroastrian religion, sirius was a maker of rain and great waters?
We may look at another theme of Sirius....success that can burn you....the Dog Days of Summer, meaning very hot summers.
Civilisation needs energy, perhaps we are now seeing the nemesis of Sirius....being very hot summers and flooding, and the product of trying to align our calendar to Sirius for too long....it is only a thought but interesting when we think of global warming!
I have a lot more in my head but it must wait, i need to rest, honestly my health isnt that good, and can effect my mind.
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Monk



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 221
Location: London

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texts from the Quran can help with understanding and cross reference of Sirius, from the web-link provided, scroll down to verse 053.049.
www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/053.qmt.html
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Monk



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 221
Location: London

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to say that the odds for electional astrology is very high in regards to 23:59pm on the 4th Oct. 1582 when Sirius is in paran to the Asc. and at midnight between 31st Dec. 1582 and 1st Jan 1583 when Sirius is conjunct the M.C. at the start of the Gregorian Calendar.
Yet by joining all to the spiritual properties of Sirius, i doubt as a human race we could ever live up to Sirius's principles.
Lets look at traditional electional astrology as valued by Agrippa.
A conjunction of the angle with a fixed star was considered especially important for any project that was meant to have long standing permanence.
According to Agrippa, describing its talismanic use, "Under the Greater Dog Star, they made an image of a hound and a little virgin; it bestoweth honour and good will, and the favour of men, and aerial spirits, and giveth the power to pacify and reconcile kings, princes, and other men".
Three Books of Occult Philosophy Bk. II, chapter 47.
Yet all spiritual stars have a nemesis, if its principles are not adherred to,...pretty difficult if you dont know about what took place!
I would have to say that kings dont always have the favour of Sirius.
Please look up Nicholas II of Russia on Wikipedia.
As most myths about the slaughter of the Romanov's have now been shown that no one survived, we can now think of Yakov Yurovsky's account of this murder as believable.
He was the leader of the bolsheviks that carried out the slaughter, and was a watchmaker from Perm, so his interest in the timing has to be valued....but all watches can be out especially before quartz, perhaps we can think the time line can be moved by 2-3 minutes.
Yurovsky said the slaughter took place at 02:33am on 17th July 1918, yet if we look at 02:36 , 17th July 1918, in Yekaterinburg, Russia, (56*N51', 60*E36') we find that Sirius is conjunct the Asc. +00*47' by projected fixed stars.
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monk, in 1583, they were still marking days sunset to sunset.

BUT interestingly if you do the Oct 4 1582 julian chart, with 20 Aries 55 Asc, You find that Sirius is on the IC.

Which Probably puts Alrisha or Vertex on the Asc. both intersting.
From Ann Wright:
Vertex - History of the star: Great Andromeda Nebula, a dense cluster of stars situated to the north of Andromeda's head. It was called the Great Nebula, the Queen of the Nebulae. It is said to have been known as far back as A.D. 905, and was described by Al Sufi as the Little Cloud before 986 A.D. (Allen).

Influence of the constellation: It is said to bestow purity of thought, virtue, honor and dignity upon its natives, but to cause battle with chimerical (wildly fanciful, highly improbable) fears and a tendency to become easily discouraged. It gives love between husband and wife and reconciles adulterers. If Mars afflicts the luminaries from Andromeda and especially if in an angle, it causes death by hanging, decapitation, crucifixion or impalement. By the Kabalists it is associated with the Hebrew letter Pe and the 17th Tarot Trump, "The Stars". (Robson).

General influence of the star: It causes blindness, injuries to the eyes, sickness and a violent death. (Robson).

Rising: The man whose birth coincides with the rising of Andromeda from the sea will prove merciless, a dispenser of punishment, a warder of dungeon dire; he will stand arrogantly by while the mothers of wretched prisoners lie prostrate on his threshold, and the fathers wait all night to catch the last kisses of their sons and receive into their inmost being the dying breath. From the same constellation comes the figure of the executioner, ready to take money for a speedy death and the rites of a funeral pyre, for him execution means profit, and oft will he bare his axe; in short, he is a man who could have looked unmoved on Andromeda herself fettered to the rock. Governor of the imprisoned he occasionally becomes a fellow convict, chained to criminals so as to save them for execution. (Manilius, "Astronomica").


Alrisha- History of the star: A double and probably binary, 3.9 and 5.5, pale green and blue, in the Knot of the Cord that binds the two Fishes of Pisces.

Alrisha is also called Okda from the Arabic Al-'Uqdah (1), "The knot".

Variations on Alrisha are Al Rescha, Al Rischa, Al Risha', or Ar-Risha'. This word originally may have come from the Babylonian Riksu, "Cord".

Classic Greek names were Sundesmos and Desmos. They were rendered by Cicero and others as Nodus, Nodus coelestis, and Nodus Piscium; by Pliny as Commissura Piscium; and in the 1515 Almagest as Nodus duorum filorum.

The Arabians translated these as 'Ukd al H'aitam, Okda and Kaitain.

The uniting cords, branching from alpha through omicron, pi, eta, and rho to the tail of the northernmost Fish, and through xi, nu, mu, f, zeta, epsilon, and delta to omega that marks the tail of the one to the south, the one Ptolemy's called... "thread," Cicero called them Vincla, the "Bonds"; and the scholiast on Germanicus, Alligamentum linteum or luteum, divided by Hevelius into Linum boreum "North Line" and Linum austrinum "South Line". (Some of these terms also were applied to the star delta as marking one of the cords).

The Arabians knew these cords as Al H'ait al Kattaniyy, "the Flaxen Thread"; and Al Asma'i, about the year 800, mentioned them in his celebrated romance Antarah as a distinct constellation; but Pliny had done the same long before him. (Allen).

This star that binds the Fishes together has a unifying influence.

Influence of the constellation: The Fishes are associated with the Hebrew letter Pe and the 17th Tarot Trump "The Stars". (Robson).
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Monk



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 221
Location: London

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Granny Scott,
Thank you for engaging with me and the debate, yet it is an area that i have looked at and discussed with astrologers.
The Egyptians gave us 365 days, but if we were unable to work out when mid-night occurred in 1582, or mid-day by sundial or water clock, then we would be no nearer to calcalating a solar year, as the Gregorian Calendar is a heliacal calendar.
I really value your comments, and my observations needs more comments, but debate as you see it is always very welcome!
During this time, we must have been able to calcalate mid-night, the Gregorian calendar is precise within one day over 3-4000 years
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not ability, its custom, it was NOT the custome ot start or end the day with midnight at that time, it was the custom to end the day with sundown. It was not the custom until, if I"m not mistaken, late 1600's in Europe to use the midnight designation for turning the day.

it wasn't until late 1700's in US.
Granny
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Monk



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Granny Scott,
In the first half of the 14th century, large mechanical clocks began to appear in the towers of several Italian cities, although they had trouble keeping them accurate.
Another advance was the invention of spring-powered clocks between 1500 and 1510 by Peter Henlein of Nuremburg.
These advances in design were precursers to truly accurate time.
Obviously sun dials also present a factor, as mid-day was very important, which corresponds to "mid-night", but even if we dont look in this area, the middle of the night on all astrology programmes show the Sun conjunct the I.C. before we used time zones at the stroke of New Year, and after if we use Greenwich, London at 00W00', which corresponds to any location that sits approx 15 degrees away.
At Rome at New Year in 1582/3, if the calcalations for our accurate calander had been done at Sun-set then we would have to make approx. 6 hours adjustment, to bring it foward to mid-night, which we follow now, which i cannot find any documents on the web that this was ever done, perhaps others can?
In 1582, by astrology standards with the Sun on the I.C., i would have thought would be a strong indicator for starting the Gregorian Calendar.
Further information can be found by the Warburg Institute, and research done by Frances Yates on the Renaissance period when the Catholic Church were giving mixed messages, and were very undecided if it was going to adopt the resurgence of Hermeticism.
At first the writing of Pico Della Mirandola fell foul of the Catholic Authorities, but in 1492, when Pope Alexaner VI become Pope, Pico's writings recieved papal blessings.
As we have two other Gnostic calenders that celebrate Sirius in Paran with Sirius, all be it in line with the Asc. angle, that are in use today, we must deem it suspicious that Sirius was in line with the M.C. at the time of our first New Year of the Gregorian.
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Monk



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Posts: 221
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Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterdays bombing of Sadr City in Baghdad, Iraq was a yardstick in the mess that is continuing in Iraq, just as the attack on "The al Askariya, Golden Mosque" was on 22nd Feb 2006 at 7:00am, (CNN News).
On 22 Feb Juno was 1*15' from the I.C. in Gemini in Samarra', Iraq.
I do research astrology, and can be a maverick, as i look at the Desc. and I.C. when looking at projected fixed stars, like how we look at parans.
I havent looked at Iraq for several months as the aggression has become impossible for an astrologer to follow, yet yesterday was an apex, and having a need to value events with some angle connection, i have looked in this area.
According to Sky News the events of yesterday started in a market in Sadr City, Baghdad, Iraq, at 15:00pm, 144 killed, 238 injured, 23rd Nov. 2006.
Vesta is the only asteroid that is conjunct an angle being the Desc, yet we associate this with a focus.
I use the Placidus house system, so we see that in the 8th House we have a Sun/Jupiter conjunction plus Venus.
Yesterday in Baghdad, Iraq at one minute difference being 14:59pm, we find the I.C. at 15*10' Cancer, and Sirius at 14*11' Cancer, Projected fixed stars.
Brady values Arcturus as "A crisis", and the Desc. is 24*38' Libra, and we find that Arcturus by projected is 24*20' Libra.
This is only research but i feel the Desc. and I.C. are important in regards to projected fixed stars.
Today we had an attack in Tal Afar, 260 miles northwest of Baghdad, at 11:00am, Mars is conjunct the M.C.
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Monk



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Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see i have made a mistake in defining Arcturus, which is a pathfinder star, Achernar is defined as a crisis.
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Monk



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Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a lot of debate concerning the connection of the horoscope to the dial of a watch, yet we know that a year is connected with greek horos, seasons and the latin hora, hours.
For debate, i see no better explanation than from this web-site, although i agree that you probably wont agree to all explanations.
www.aloha.net/~johnboy/chrono.htg/chrono.htm
Perhaps it will help debate over the Gregorian Calendar.
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