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Have I changed the outcome& waiting
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SandraB



Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 107
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 6:15 pm    Post subject: Have I changed the outcome& waiting Reply with quote

Hi Reader,

I have been waiting impatiently for the outcome of my horary questions answer to see if it coincides with reality. It is very hard to be patient. In the meantime, I am concerned that I have unwittingly changed the outcome of my answer by doing nothing. Any thoughts? What do you tell people who ask you horaries?

Sandra
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Deb
Administrator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always make it clear to my clients that whilst they expect me to show good judgement in how I interpret the chart, the ultimate responsibility falls on them to show good judgement through common sense. So I wouldnít expect anyone to take me up on any astrological advice unless it absolutely felt the right approach for them to take (and that should happen if you work the chart properly).

No one should pass responsibility for their lives or actions over to anyone or anything else. Most horary practitioners make it very clear that the purpose of horary isnít to predict what will happen but to give the querent the opportunity to actively empower themselves through a better understanding of the spiritual reality they are involved in. (ie., donít wait for it to happen, establish if itís possible and what you have to do to make it happen). If you are working on your own charts you definitely need to open yourself up to them on a spiritual level and let the interpretation process illuminate your understanding and better judgement. I doubt thatís happened because if it had you wouldnít be feeling the impatience that accompanies anxiety. The fact that the horary hasnít eased your concerns or left you feeling more aware and in control of the problem suggests it hasnít done the job it was supposed to. So stop relying on whatever you saw in that, fall back on common sense and question whether your impatience is based on a minor moment of impatience or an instinctive recognition that your non-activity is letting a valuable opportunity slip away.
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SandraB



Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 107
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb,

If you read over carefully what I wrote, you will realize I said I was waiting and feeling impatient and wondered what if anything would change the outcome of what was predicted or stated to be the likely outcome. Waiting or doing nothing is some times the only course of action and excitement or anxiety are natural outcomes even when spiritually enlightened. Frankly I find your replies rather condescending. I have read your replies and I don't find them spiritual or getting to the root of the problem or empowering-more you just state what you see in the chart and them a prediction.
Sandra
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
excitement or anxiety are natural outcomes even when spiritually enlightened


You see I donít agree with that, because a client should walk away from a consultation without anxiety and feeling more confident because the consultation has put them back in control of the situation. My point was that if anxiety and fear remains, the consultation hasnít been fully satisfying and shouldnít be used as a basis to make decisions. To achieve that sense of spiritual illumination for yourself, asking your own questions, is much harder than during a consultation process because you are the one that has the anxiety in the first place and there is no emotionally-independent astrologer acting as the medium between the astrological symbolism and the querentís concerns. There was no intention to be condescending; I merely answered your request for thoughts about this issue. And you had made evident your concern that by doing nothing you had unwittingly changed the outcome.

But I am happy to refrain from replying to your posts in future.
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SandraB



Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 107
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb,

Maybe it is the lack of emoticons in your writing, but your responses and sometimes others do come back as condescending.

I think excitement and worry would be a natural outcome of caring very much about what happens whether the client is in control or proactive no matter what, so we do disagree here.

Thanks,
Sandra
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SandraB



Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 107
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:39 pm    Post subject: Update Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I have been waiting patiently for news of my settlement and was expecting to hear from the people involved by now, but haven't. Confused

Thanks,
Sandra
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haku



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 142

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i find deb's responses not condescending at all, on the contrary, i find them very empowering.
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Minderwiz



Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Wigan, Lancs

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i go along with Deb and Haku here. i think it's really necessary to think carefully about your reading, especially if it is for someone else and to be careful that you base your interpretations on a clear methodology and reasoned deductions. Yes, there will be elements of intuition and insight (and indeed there should be) but the querent/client is coming for advice not an emotional experience. If you get involved with your clients emotional state or tell them what they want to hear rather than what you see you are doing them a disservice. I fully agree with Deb's comments about the role of the professional here.

When reading for yourelf it is important to try to achieve the same level of objectivity. Obviously it is much more difficult if you are emotionally involved with the question and the outcome is desparately important. In some cases anxiety and impatience can cloud your judgement so you might well feel that you can't achieve the necessary detachment and then you might need to consider consulting someone else.

If this seems to be 'patronising' it is not meant to be - we boarded a cat for a friend of my daughter. The first time everything went fine. Then a few months later she asked us to board him again. He seemed quite at home and then one morning he went out and didn't come back. As the days went by and my daughter dropped fliers through peoples letter boxes, I tried my liimited skills on a horary of where he might be. I found it very difficult to be objective - I was so anxious as to the outcome. I have a friend in the USA who is a professional and I asked her to look over my reading and conclusions. Although she bore out my own interpretation that he was trapped, I found a second opinion extremely helpful because it was a detached view. After a few days I tried another horary and my reading then was that he would return. Sure enough within 36 hours he was back.

Putting emotions on one side and trying to draw on one's spirituality can help and I think Deb's advice was perfectly sound.
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Minderwiz



Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Wigan, Lancs

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS - in the above reading, as a result of the first chart we went out and looked around the estate on a regular basis - if he was trapped we hoped to find him. We didn't actually find him, he came back on his own, so in one sense we didn't do anything to affect the outcome. However we did treat the reading as likely to reflect the real situation and we did try to gear our search according to the directions indicated in the chart, wholst covering other possiblilities as well - so in that sense the reading was empowering as Deb suggests - we didn't just sit and wait.
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SandraB



Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 107
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Thanks for your responses. Another perspective is always helpful and refreshing.
Sandra
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SandraB



Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 107
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb:

I was looking over past posts and i am sorry i was so harsh wih you.

Sorry,
Sandra
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Deb
Administrator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thatís very nice of you to come back and say so. Thank you Sandra. The same goes of course, for those time I sounded harsh to you Smile
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Moondance7



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 115

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel that just the fact of having an horary done, even a spectacular one, does not relieve one of their human nature, which is prone to anxiety over important matters. Also, what about those of us who are decidedly not "spiritual" and don't want to be?

I am new to this board but have noted a definite "spiritual" leaning. For instance, there have been many comments about "base" questions, as if there is a list of concerns considered spiritually OK, and others that aren't.
My opinion is that all concerns of humanity are legitimate fodder for exploration if one is so inclined. That is a choice made by the individual, and no astrologer need feel obligated to respond if they find the subject distasteful.

I feel that astrology is a physical phenomenon that we presently have little understanding of, and there is room in the astrological community for all points of view, or should be.
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thatís probably a view worth exploring, and itís a question Iím planning to raise shortly in the philosophy forum Ė for a slightly different reason but it fits the bill. One of the problems when old threads get resurrected like this is that they donít reveal the wider picture of what was happening at that time. There had been a number of previous questions relating to this issue, so what seems to be the initial response in this thread wasnít the real starting point of the discussion. Rightly or wrongly I felt that Sandra wasnít getting any benefit out of continuing to put such a heavy emphasis upon her horary for reassurance. Sometimes we can get locked into our own issues, so that all we see back in our own charts are the expectations we place there. When thatís the case I do think itís best to be able to put the astrology aside, and I do make it clear to all my clients that if what I am telling them is right, it will also feel right too - even if it is uncomfortable or is disappointing in its content. In my experience querents always report a feeling of reassurance, even when the horary has only strengthened or confirmed a doubt that was somewhere in their mind, but about which theyíd been trying to remain hopeful, or feeling somehow emotionally obligated to dismiss.
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1639
Location: California, USA

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a note, but... this forum attracts people from all over the world, so, what may seem quite empathetic to one person may seem trite or condescending to another. A large part of this I've decided after years of observing this forum is cultural difference. It might behoove all those who post to take into consideration that English has a great variance of use in its different parts of the world.

So, tone of voice is not conveyed and cultural bias is a definite consideration when posting. So it would probably be good for people to think hard about what they are saying and how they are saying it, and instead of getting hurt feelings, perhaps question what it is you heard in the reply post, you may misunderstand. If the person truely is being offensive, then you can always deal with it AFTER you've questioned and confirmed or re-assessed your opinion or concern.

this of course is my opinion, and merely a suggestion, others may vary. I've come accross a lot of this lately. One person on a group I'm on recently has been taking every question or comment as severe criticism, where only very simple and non judgemental questions have been asked. Quite odd for that person to do, I'm suspecting he's upset about something and taking it out on others, but still!

And possibly those reading posts might take into account, as I think Deb has, that the poster may be a bit upset and not responding as rationally as they might... (I'm feeling awefully Libran today in case one can't tell)

Granny
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