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The Total Solar Eclipse Sun-Bird

 
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Sungem



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 206
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:34 pm    Post subject: The Total Solar Eclipse Sun-Bird Reply with quote

While tomorrow's solar eclipse is annular and won't block the sun entirely, I found this site yesterday and thought it an interesting "co-incidence" Smile

http://eclipsephoenix.homestead.com/phoenix1.html

It traces the image, created by the sun's corona, which has reverberated around the ancient world in myth.

Robin Edgar writes:
There should be very little doubt in modern minds that the enormous cosmic "Sun-Bird," whose form is clearly perceivable within the sun's corona, is the source of inspiration for many, if not most, mythical birds. This ethereal apparition was most certainly perceived by the people of ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, the ancient Americas, and elsewhere. Not the least of these mythical sun birds, and the one that is certainly the most familiar to Western people, is the proverbial phoenix. This ubiquitous legendary bird of the sun was believed to make an appearance every few hundred years or so only to die immolated in its own flames. It was then reborn from its own ashes, or from an egg-like ball of myrrh. This ancient "myth" sounds a lot like a total solar eclipse to me.
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what a great observation. I had thought just a daily version of the sun rising and setting, but since it is supposed to be so unusual an eclipse makes more sense and you can get the visual from its shadow.

by the way, from where will the eclipse be viewable? anyone?

Granny
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, according to AStro.com (I was fooling around on there) the eclipse should be from about 7 am to 8 am for the east coasters, I believe that is 11 - noon for the UK???unfortunately will be 4 am to 5 am on west coast so wont be visable. Not certain at what declination it will be visible, but if you have a nice blank piece of paper you can turn your back to the sun and watch the eclipse over your shoulder on the paper. =)

sometimes those old methods are really the best.

Granny
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3438
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read, and this is probably old news that I wasn't aware of, that some astrologers as far back as Ptolemy said the eclipse would be felt in the degree of the eclipse in any sign regardless of whether or not there was an aspect, so anyone with anything at 29 degrees of any sign might be affected by this eclipse at 29 Virgo*. I'm not so sure this really fits with any kind of astrological logic, but it might be worth noting and looking for evidence of this sort of thing.

Tom

*I'm not thirlled with my source, but it is possible he's right.
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amelia



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 395
Location: Wales

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom
Does your source say why this could be?
It seems to me there are two possibilities:-
that the eclipse would be felt at this degree provided the aspect was ptolemaic ( this would tie in with Ptolemy supporting it)
or
that the effect is not really of the eclipse itself but of all the lunations-for instance the lunations for the next 6 months will occur within 1 degree or so of the 29 degree eclipse; as the sun moves round the zodiac. (Although the same is not currently true for the other half of the year).
And presumably the previous month's ( in this case August's) lunation would also be close enough the eclipse degree too.

Together these two seem to pick up pretty much all the signs.

It is something I do tend to follow, I tend to look at all the lunations as triggers - so any chart with a point there has the chance to pick up the effects. Then the eclipse itself is just a slightly stronger manifestation of the energy- maybe a turning point in the events. Having said that I would still put more emphasis on the effects on a planet in the sign as well as the degree of the eclipse
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well on a number of occasions, its been noted around here, that 29 degrees represents a crisis point. a Point where something is about to change, so an irregular event happening at such a degree I think is likely to be critical to many many people. interestingly enough I dont have any planets later than 26 degrees anywhere in my chart. =) well mars in my Progressed chart is about to go from a LOVELY 29 Aries, to taurus, but nothing in my natal chart anyway. =) (though my natal mars is a nice wet Pisces so I'm thinking going to taurus probably feels more natural to it)

Granny
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ameilia,

Quote:
Does your source say why this could be?


My source is an astrological bumpkin. I recently ordred and received A History of the Horoscope by David Ovason. Some may recall him as the author of a book on the meaning of a great number of zodiacs in Washington, DC. A first I thought his errors could be typos or careless proofreading by a person unfamiliar with astrology. Aquarius is not, Mr. Ovason, the domicile of Jupiter. There are a few of these whoppers, but so many other errors that I'm not sure which ones, if any, are oversights, miscommunications, etc and which ones are the result of genuine ignorance (Morinus was not the first astrologer to put the parents in the 4th house and he never put domestic animals and servants in the 4th either. He clearly states the 6th).

Without a specific source Ovason indicates that Ptolemy and Valens were of the opinion that the eclipse degree mattered regardless of sign. I just got done checking my copy of Tetrabiblos and cannot find such a reference. I even checked the Centiloquoy often erroneously attributed to Ptolemy figurig Ovason didn't know that Ptolemy didn't write that little work. I have to admit that the gaping hole in my astrological library is Valens. I have nothing of his, but I am suspicious that either of these astrologers made such a statement. Even if I am correct, it does not follow that no one else did. I would have to check a lot of sources to be sure, but Ovason is so unreliable in matters astrological that I'm pretty certain this is one more mistake. Ovason gives the example of Princess Di. An eclipse occurred two days prior to her death and by using this aphorism.

My ASC is 29 Leo and Mercury is at 29 Aquarius neither of which forms a classical aspect to 29 Virgo. So we'll see. Ptolemy spends a great deal of time on the length of time the effects of an eclipse lasts and what parts of the world are affected, etc, but I didn't see anything pertaining to the ecipse degree. Now Ptolemy is one of the two most boring writers on astrology (the other is Placidus), so my eyes could have glazed and I missed something, but this isn't his style.

Tom



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amelia



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 395
Location: Wales

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I won't be personally testing this one. I have nothing at 29 degree of any sign. For a bit of fun I just enabled every possible body including fictional ones on Solar fire on my natal and progressed chart. Still nothing at 29 degrees anywhere!!

So I decided to check Thailand - since they had the most exciting week. And believe it or not the Thai 1782 chart in BOWH has moon at 29 Cap and uranus at 29 gem ( it also has a conj of jupiter at 28 sag and saturn at 1 cap) . So argument in favour of the Ptolemaic aspects anyway. But of course there are other places with planets at this degree which have been somewhat less eventful....
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amelia



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 395
Location: Wales

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was musing a little more on this and wondered, since Venezuela was one of the few countries actually touched by this eclipse, whether it had anything at all at 29 degrees. As it happens the final independence date for the country was 22 sep 1830, so it has its sun at 29 virgo!

But I wasn't aware of anything much happening there so I just did a net search and found this:

6:22 a.m. September 25, 2006
CARACAS, Venezuela – The verbal attacks Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez launched against President Bush should not affect diplomatic relations between the countries, the U.S. ambassador said Monday.
William Brownfield said officials in Washington would try to overlook the string of insults uttered last week by Chavez, who called Bush “the devil” at the U.N. General Assembly and an “alcoholic” at a church in Harlem, New York.
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AlexMc



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 55
Location: USA

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom writes,
Quote:
…some astrologers as far back as Ptolemy said the eclipse would be felt in the degree of the eclipse in any sign regardless of whether or not there was an aspect... I'm not so sure this really fits with any kind of astrological logic, but it might be worth noting and looking for evidence of this sort of thing.

Your statement recalled to my mind something Robert Schmidt wrote, not about eclipses, but the sensitivity of a 30 degree interval. It’s a start at least. It came from Valens, Book IX, chapter 3. Schmidt’s suggested interpretation (1996) is that Valens seems to be saying, regards the “twelve turning”, that a pivotal degree in one whole sign will be pivotal throughout all the signs regardless of aspect.
Quote:
….the Ascendant degree is a kentron, a pivot or hinge around which the sign turns, and it is this pivoting that alters the sign and makes it serve the role as the first whole-sign, wherever the Ascendant point may fall in the sign itself. Might not the first degree of each equal "house" from the Ascendant be regarded as the "pivot" of the whole-sign in which it occurs, a kind of point around which it turns and which makes the entire sign the second place (or house), for instance, giving it its unique character? Thus, the "twelve-turning" would be an extension of the idea of a pivot, formerly restricted to the angles, to all the intermediate signs. …every degree which is thirty degrees from the Ascendant or a multiple thereof should be regarded as a "cusp" (or turning point) of the whole-sign in which it occurs albeit not a cusp on one of the extremities of the sign (Schmidt).

Apparently, Valens ties in, not just the ascendant degree, but also the degrees of the lots because lots can be 'ascendants' for their specific topic. It might be, at the least, a start for a 30 degree template. New re-translations from Project Hindsight are due out shortly, perhaps Schmidt will have found more info to expand upon this technique.

The link to the article: House Division, Planetary Strength, and Cusps in Hellenistic Astrology by Robert Schmidt http://cura.free.fr/quinq/02schmi.html
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know I said I didn't have anything at 29 degrees, but again I forget... My part of Marriage is at 29 Virgo. Of course I'm not in a relationship, so that probably doesn't mean squat, but hey, I'll keep my eyes open.

in the mean time...Amelia! great spotting! Hugo Chavez DOB is 28 July 1954, dont know location and such.

Only Virgo Planet is Venus. I wonder if he has a rising at say 01Libra?
low forhead somewhat suggests libra asc.

Granny
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