Latin terminology & other inexplicables in Dee's Diary

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April 22, 1555 Jane Fromond borne at Cheyham ([i]where is that? not in my atlas[/i]) at none, I[i] assume this is 12 pm lmt[/i]

August 1, 1555, Edward Kelly [b]natus horus quarta a meridie Wigornie[/b] -- what time is that? & where is Wigornie

June 23, 1563 Jane Cooper, now Mystris Kelly, toward evening. [i]Where?, I'm using 4:30 pm LMT[/i]

Writing a paper "Dr. Dee, Dr. Faustus & the Assassination of Christopher Marlowe" -- my conjecture for Marlowe's birth is Feb 7, 1564 NS -- just about at the full moon, yielding 12 AQ rising w/Mercury in 12th --

Really appreciate your info. Thanks in advance.

Sonja Foxe

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Hi Sonja,

Sorry I can't help with the Latin. Every source I checked online lists Marlowe's Birthdate as Feb 6, 1564, and his baptism as Feb 26, 1664. None of my sources specified NS or OS. Since the baptism is from a recorded document and since England didn't go on the Gregorian caledar for quite some time after Marlowe, I'd lean towards OS.

In The Astrologer's Apprentice No. 8 Marlowe's birthdata is given as follows without a source: Feb 6, 1564, 4:00 am LMT, Canterbury, OS, 23 Sagittarius rises. The article is a fun read regardless of whether or not we accept the date and time.

Tom

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April 22, 1555 Jane Fromond borne at Cheyham (where is that? not in my atlas) at none, I assume this is 12 pm lmt
Cheyham is the old spelling for Cheam and "none" is noon.
August 1, 1555, Edward Kelly natus horus quarta a meridie Wigornie -- what time is that? & where is Wigornie

Fourth hour in the afternoon (4 pm). Old form of Worcester.

June 23, 1563 Jane Cooper, now Mystris Kelly, toward evening. Where?, I'm using 4:30 pm LMT
Joan Cooper, Chipping Norton.
http://www.johndee.org/charlotte/Chapter6/6p2.html
Why 4:30 pm? That's too early for evening in June.


I think I may have data on Marlowe somewhere, but could take a while to seek it out...

Kim
www.kimfarnell.co.uk

Thanks again

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Tom, I'm using NS for Marlowe because one of the biographers said he could have been born anytime between Jan 15 & Feb 25 1564 OS -- I like the full Leo Moon because of his dramaturgy & if one does a converse progression to his death the lunar CAP/CAN eclipse some 29 days before this hypothetical b-date addresses the circumstances of his death.

Isn't interesting how Marlowe's death resonates with the current murdered spy -- Litvinenko?

Kim, would you suggest for a 7:30-8 pm birthtime for Joan Cooper?

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Kim, would you suggest for a 7:30-8 pm birthtime for Joan Cooper?
I take it you're thinking of sunset? I don't know Dee's diaries well enough to take more than an educated guess, it depends how he uses the word "evening" and whether there's any other suggestive text. (For example, if he uses "sunset" differently as a word.) However, I'd be tempted towards just before 6 pm on the basis that by then vespers would rely on clock time rather than unequal hours, therefore be at 6pm, and is an alternative expression for evening.

The issue with Marlowe's dob isn't so much which calendar (it would definitely be OS in 1564) so much as year. It's possible that Dee used 1 January for the new year, but also that he used the old year dates so the new year starts at 25 March. That would mean that 1564 under this system could actually be 1565 as we calculate it. But again, I don't know the text well enough and would have to look more closely. (I'd guess 1 Jan as he was a protestant with a bee in his bonnet about calendars but maybe you know this.)

Forget that - It seems from Charlotte Fell Smith's biography of Dee that he'd use Jan 1 as the new year. I've left the above in case anyone else points it out.
http://altreligion.about.com/library/te ... ndee59.htm

I'll try to find my own notes on Marlowe, which are hiding somewhere as soon as I have a few spare seconds.

Kim
www.kimfarnell.co.uk

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Kim, thanks so much.

I cast the corrected 'scopes, and still could not find Cheam ... not in my atlas.

My justification for the "NS" for Marlowe was supposing when he was abroad on a mission for Seething Lane that his birthdate was translated into NS for some reason or another, admittedly very speculative on my part -- however, none of his biographers has anything better to offer -- just the baptism date Feb 26 1564 OS is documented.

Sonja

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somehow your last remark reminded me of a tootsie pop commercial, posh on the inside, sweet hard crust on the outside...

HOw many licks does it take to get tot he center of a tootsie pop? the world may never know...

(tootsie pop's are a candy, for those that may live where they dont have them)

Granny