Mystery Chart No. 1

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In an effort to practice some astrology, not only talk about it, Mark F made a suggestion that we post a mystery chart and ask members to make some observations based on the chart. We re NOT looking to identify the individual, so if anyone recognizes the data, please withhold what you know and wait for a chart that you don?t recognize. We?re looking for things like describing physical appearance, career or type of career, marriage(s) if any, siblings, if any, children if any, health issues, honors, dishonors etc. Death may or may not be relevant, but if the chart is a long time ago, and someone wants to try it, predict a death date. No one will mind. It is not necessary to post a complete delineation; in fact it is probably better if we don?t do that. If you are interested in vocational astrology, take a stab at the career. If you like relationships, look at the marriage. Is medical astrology your cup of tea, then why not give health issues a whirl?

The purpose of this exercise is to delineate, not criticize. There is plenty of other space to discuss and critique technique on the Forum. Therefore, we would prefer that discussion and critique of a particular point raised on this thread be taken elsewhere. Questions, for the purpose of eliciting information are perfectly acceptable. Criticism, no matter how well intended, is not welcome. If a member is not impressed with a particular technique or understanding of a technique then he or she should put up his or her own, not go after someone who posted a thought or idea.

We would like to limit delineations to verifiable events and conditions. Things like ?problems with his parents,? are not helpful since everyone on earth has problems with their parents at some time or other. On the other hand a statement such as, ?Left home at about age 16 after altercation with father,? or even ?raised by wolves in an abandoned NYC subway station? is acceptable as long as there is supporting testimony. Completely irrelevant remarks and suspicion of cheating will result in immediate deletion of the posts - probably without explanation. Please support all contentions with astrological evidence, i.e. techniques and explanations, unless it is painfully obvious. If someone wants to cheat and goes birthday hunting remember, if you?re discovered your shame will be great, and you will have accomplished nothing, except temporarily bolstering your own pitiful ego.

Placidus is the most commonly used house system, but anything is welcome. Please identify your house system for the benefit of the group. Mistakes are welcome and a post mortem is also a good idea before moving on to another chart. That will be done on another thread. This is wide open so do not feel you must limit yourself to what is mentioned. We?ll accept delineations that include the outer three, but let?s avoid asteroids, Chiron, hypothetical planets, etc on this particular forum.

Remember there are all levels of knowledge on this site from beginners to famous professionals and published authors. Be kind, but be brave. This is good opportunity for beginners to work with experienced astrologers. Errors will not result in fines.

Finally the selection of subjects is mine. I?ll probably be biased towards Americans, so feel free to send me your preferences off list, if you wish. My choices will range from saints to sinners, famous and infamous, historical and contemporary. It probably isn?t possible to find less than obvious charts that are internationally well known, so it is possible that someone will have no idea who the subject is even after revelation. This happened to me once. I worked and worked on a mystery chart and when the native was announced, I had never heard of him, but my delineation wasn?t bad, and that was the point of the exercise.

I?ll post the name of the native on a separate thread on or about Friday, December 1. This way if someone wishes to work with the chart after that, they may avoid ?peeking? until they?re done and others can discover identity at their leisure. We can critique what was written on the second thread and people can read that at their leisure.

Remember we are trying to describe the individual and perhaps some events in his or her life, not identify him. While it is perfectly all right to suggest the native is a gangster, it is not acceptable to say, ?I think it?s Dutch Shultz.? Mostly let?s have some fun, and keep it light.

Let?s start with this one:

Male
July 10, 1943
12:55 PM EWT (Eastern War Time) + 4hrs
Richmond, VA, USA
37 N 33? 13?
77 W 27? 38?


Tom.

Image
Last edited by Tom on Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tom,

I believe this a very good idea and a great opportunity for everyone to do some practice with charts in natal astrology.

May I offer that you also give additionally the asc of Mr/Ms Mystery, so that everyone will be sure whether or not s/he is correct, and won't waste time around a false (different than what you intended it to be) chart.

Cheers,
Sigma

3
Excellent suggestion. The ASC of this mystery chart is 11 Libra 28 according to my software. Other programs may vary by a minute or so. And for the record the MC is 12 Cancer 55.

Thanks Sigma.

Tom

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Hi Tom,

Would you please give the day and year too...?
Why? Do you need that? Sorry It got cut off when I cut and pasted.

Here is all the data again. I'll edit the original post.

Male
July 10, 1943
12:55 PM EWT + 4hrs
Richmond, VA, USA
37 N 33? 13?
77 W 27? 38?

Sorry about that.

Tom

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When I run the data through Solar Fire, it gives EST rather than EWT as active in Richmond VA on that date. Do you know if EWT was used in Virginia in July 1943?
PS: This may be a bug in Solar Fire 6 with the built-in ACS atlas.
When I enter "Richmond" VA it gives EST, but if I enter "richmond" VA (small "r") it gives EWT.
How odd!

PS: I rebooted my computer and the strange action around entering Richmond in Solar Fire cleared up. I have no idea what happened but it now gives EWT. Sorry about any confusion.
Last edited by TonyLouis on Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hi Tony,

According to my printed version of the America Atlas, 1978, Virginia went on Eastern War Time on Feb 9, 1942 and went back to standard time on September 30, 1945.

I don't know if this has anything to do with SF 6.0 atlas, but cities in Virginia are separate from the counties (or they were when I went to school there a while ago), and there is a Richmond county as well as a Richmond City. I believe Maryland government is set up the same way. However both the city and the county went on war time and back to standard on the above dates.

Tom

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Virginia went on Eastern War Time on Feb 9, 1942 and went back to standard time on September 30, 1945.
Ditto what Tom says here about EWT. By an Act of the United States Congress War Time was observed nationwide during these dates - it was federal law.

In addition, my printed copy of Time Changes in the United States (1966) gives the same dates for Virginia as well as for every other state.

Very strange for Solar Fire's ACS atlas to have a DST/WT quirk there - thanks for the heads up.

11
We would like to limit delineations to verifiable events and conditions.
In rectifying charts I generally start by considering planets close to angles because they will indicate events in early life by primary direction or secondary progression. In this chart we have the Sun close the the MC and the Moon close to the ASC. Eyeballing the chart, I would estimate a significant event involving the parents about age 5 or 6 as the luminaries cross the angles by primary direction. Given the close square between the sun and moon, I would expect this event to be stressful. Because the Moon naturally rules the mother and also rules the 10th cusp, which traditionally signifies the mother, and the sun is in the 10th (the mother), I would expect this event to have affected the person's mother quite profoundly.

Solar Fire gives the following direct primaries for conjuntions to angles in early life:
(direct primary directions at a rate of one degree RA on MC = 1 year)
MC conj Mercury Dec 47
Sun conj MC July 48
Moon conj ASC Sept 49

Mercury rules the natal 9th, which is the derived 12th of the mother, so she may have become ill at that time. The sun rules the natal 11th, which (as Morin noted) is the 8th of the 4th, representing the death of a parent. The natal ASC is the 4th of the 10th, so could also signify the mother's death. I woud suspect that this person's mother became seriously ill or may even have died when he or she was about 6 years old.

Since the Sun and Moon are natally square, we should also consider when the MC squares the Moon by converse primary direction. Solar Fire gives this as:
MC cPm square Moon Nov 1950.

This is the last primary direction involving this natal sun/moon square in this person's childhood, so whatever befell the mother would have been completed by the end of 1950 (by age 7).

PS: The reason I start with estimating hits and events from planets very close to angles (if they occur) is to get a sense of whether I'm working with a radical chart. If the person tells me that nothing happened in early life that is analogous to the hits in the chart, I suspect that I do not have an accurate birth time. I then ask them to double check the birth time before spending a lot of time on the wrong chart.
Last edited by TonyLouis on Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Tony,

I can't thank you enough for that last post. I had hoped that this topic would be a learning excercise for me, and your one post alone did more than I had hoped for.

I'm trying to learn some basic techniques, where to start, how to get a handle on a chart. I had thought to start with the temperament, which I figure is very sanguine. But even I know that once having stated that, it doesn't really say much about the person. Roughly a quarter of the people on earth are sanguine.
Mark F