Mystery Chart No. 1 Identity Revealed

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Caveat!! If you don?t want to know the name of the native of Mystery Chart No. 1 ?stop reading now!!

Thank you all for participating. I?d like to go over every post in detail but that would require a lot more time and space than we have available. We can only hit on some highlights. Feel free to chime in with any and all questions and remarks. An awful lot of the information posted was right on the money. There are more than a few issues of technique and interpretation that we can and should discuss. I just can't mention them all in this post or it will be book length.

No one named the profession for which our native was most noted for, but since he had two careers, that is understandable. Some of the judgments cannot be verified or at least I couldn?t verify them. My sources consist mainly of various websites and a memoir written by the native. Let?s start with a quote from Tony Louis.

In this chart we have the Sun close to the MC and the Moon close to the ASC. Eyeballing the chart, I would estimate a significant event involving the parents about age 5 or 6 as the luminaries cross the angles by primary direction. Given the close square between the sun and moon, I would expect this event to be stressful. Because the Moon naturally rules the mother and also rules the 10th cusp, which traditionally signifies the mother, and the sun is in the 10th (the mother), I would expect this event to have affected the person's mother quite profoundly.

According to most biographies, the native?s mother died in 1950. The native himself said she died shortly before his 7th birthday, which would be July 1950. I could not find an exact date. One source said she died on his 6th birthday, but that would have been 1949 and I found no other source that gave that date.

If the birth time were altered by 3 minutes to 12:52, The Moon crosses his ASC in June of 1950, shortly before his 7th birthday

I would suspect that this person's mother became seriously ill or may even have died when he or she was about 6 years old.

Bull?s-eye for Tony.

This suggests a person of who can endeavor harsh things in life, one who steadily face the difficulties of life and fight back with constant "steadiness"

This could be the understatement of the decade. Or native faced racial segregation, and hatred, as well as death with the same calm almost detached manner as he faced everything in life. Great observation.

Mercury and Jupiter are in paran relationship with Scheat (the thinker), which suggests a person who goes for intellectual pursuit especially during the early (star rise with Jupiter) and later part of his life (star sets with Mercury).

Education was paramount in his life despite the fact that that field was not what he is best known for. When he discovered, while doing research, that there was no basic reference work on the struggles of black athletes in the US, he expressed surprise, disappointment, and then he wrote one himself. This is the way to approach problems ? not whine about them.

Now, the rest of the stars that have paran relationship with the traditional planets are active during his later years suggesting his public "appearance" and fame/notoriety came late...

?Late? is a relative term here since our native was known primarily and first for athletics. Athletic careers generally end when the careers of the rest of us are just getting going. So his more serious public life began after that which was ?later.?

At this point, sports fans, well sports fans my age, will probably recognize that our native is Arthur Ashe, the first black man to win The Championships at Wimbledon. But Ashe would say if he was remembered only as a tennis player he would consider his life to be a failure. While ?failure? is probably too strong a word he made this point to kids over and over again, that professional athletics is not a good route to follow for success because so very few have the talent to make it to the top of the professional ranks. Their time was better spend learning and preparing for a more likely future. To Ashe tennis was only a springboard to fame that he would put to better use. He even said of himself that his tennis career was ?selfish.? It was for him only. And he did putting to better use going so far as to use his impending death as a vehicle to educate others about AIDS, about death and dying.

I thought the same, except that I see Mars in the 8th whole sign house, which makes things worse with the marriage... but I'm wondering about the role of Venus, who trines Mars tightly and so receives him and gives him her "disposition, nature and virtue" as Bonatti writes. But Venus has not much virtue, being in her fall and in the 12th whole sign house - but she is in turn received by Mercury who is sextiling her, so that improves her situation. I cannot say exactly what this means , I would just say that the situation of Mars is not simple. I think I would still say that there's probably been problems with marriage.

Here we never know, but this exchange is important. By all accounts Ashe had a very good marriage, but none of us lived with him. What is important here is the understanding that a single placement does not necessarily tell the whole story. A malefic in the 7th should raise a red flag, but then we need to go deeper.

MC is exactly on the midpoint of Sun and Mercury, which would point to a man with an influential public role involving communications / writing. MC is also on Sirius, and Robson says here: "High office under Government giving great profit and reputation". So I would say this is a famous and influential man with a public position, which involves speaking or writing.

?Public position? is usually associated with government, but, as in this case, it doesn?t have to be. Ashe did both. He spoke frequently and in addition to the expected ?How To Play Tennis? stuff he wrote two books: the three volume Hard Road to Glory the aforementioned reference about black athletes in the US, and his memoir, Days of Grace. His reputation for integrity throughout his life was beyond reproach.

But I'm wondering the role of the Asc ruler Venus in her fall in the 12th whole sign house of self-undoing... The picture is not wholly as glorious as it would seem from the 10th house alone.

This is a good point, and no one is perfect. I don?t pretend to know what, if any skeletons were in the Ashe closet. But The ASC and ruler also represent the body. The way Ashe was said to have contracted the AIDS (through a tainted blood transfusion after heart surgery) virus was certainly not through any self-undoing. Venus rules the 8th, too and he tried to keep his illness private (a 12th house word), and that may be all there is to this. For all his athletic ability he had physical problems. He had two heart operations and a brain operation in addition to contacting AIDS through no fault of his own.

Wow!!! I wonder if he even survives 1992-1994 period - must have been hell for him.

Sadly he did not. Arthur Ashe died of complications due to AIDS on Feb 6, 1993 at teh age of 49. The official cause of death was pneumonia.

Several people mentioned the word ?stubborn,? or synonyms for it. This may be a case of the eye of the beholder. One man?s stubborn is another?s dedication. In order to rise to the top of the athletic world, or the part of it that the native occupies, one has to be extraordinarily dedicated. When everything tells them to give up, they usually dig in. Winners do anyway. So while the judgment was essentially correct the way it is perceived might cause the astrologer to say ?stubborn? or ?dedicated. It?s a tough call to see which is more correct. Perhaps the answer is in the temperament or significator of the manners.

Outside of tennis Ashe was uncompromising with his ideals. That too may be seen as stubborn or dedicated, depending on whether or not we agree with his take on those ideals.

The Sun Moon square seems to dominate the chart along with Saturn. It coincides with the death of his mother and that would have a lasting effect I am sure. Ashe barely remembers her, but he admitted that he felt an emptiness due to her loss and spent soe time with a psychiatrist to work this out shortly after he retired from tennis.

Morin tells us if the ruler of the 10th is in the first the native will earn honors in his life. Couple that with the Sun, the natural significator of honors in the 10th and fame is virtually assured. Ashe certainly had that. He was a thoughtful reflective man who enjoyed being an athlete, but as he described in Days of Grace, he didn?t want to end up like a lot of retired athletes: forever trying to relive the glory days. He wanted to do more.

Interestingly he noted that reputation was very important to him. This was instilled in him by his father, a man Ashe described as semi literate, but hard working and self sufficient. People seemed attracted to Asdshe not only as hangers on to a famous athlete, bt because of his dignity and his character.

There is a story about how Arthur received a letter from a little girl shortly after it was announced that he had AIDS. It said: ?Why did God send such a terrible to disease to someone like you?? His answer is very revealing and I don?t have the exact quote but it was close to this:

?Perhaps 50 million people will learn to play tennis. Out of that about 500,000 will play it for fun. Maybe 5,000 will at one time play it professionally. Of that number 500 will be good enough to play on the pro tour. Of that 500 perhaps 60 will play at Wimbledon; four will make it to the semi finals; two will be finalists; one will win. When I held that trophy I did not ask ?God, Why me?? Now in my pain I will not ask, ?God, Why me??

This was quite a man.

Tom



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I thought so,

you will note in my post I said the only two people who I knew with Venus in Virgo played Tennis, thank you very much,
Also that I said that I thought the person was probably active in Civil Rights, score number 2,
and that he was already dead, probably having died of desease either venereal or related to blood, score number 3,
not to mention that the same people with Venus in Virgo were health nuts, but had numerous health problems, also a hit, His 1979 Heart attack at Age 36 required tripple bypass, very young for heart issues, and If I recall correctly, he suffered asthma as well. in retrospect the asthma and heart problems were probably interconnected. A lot of the steroids they used to give asthma sufferers are very bad for the heart.
And if I recall correctly I believe I also noted he probably either didn't have children or had only one, and If I'm not mistaken he has ONe daughter named Camera after her mothers profession.

OH and the fixed stars named him as probably not marrying until 35, and he in fact married when 34, so hit for Ann Wright.

What surprised me most was FAther NOT being in law or education profession, but being a gardener, groundskeeper. but hey, I think I hit enough of the other things that was okay.

And round of face, another score. moon on asc.
Yup, I thought so, and I dont think I did to bad there either. :brows

Granny.

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Tom,

It seems that the biggest mistake that we all seemed to make was to see the person as some sort of scholar, intellectual, scientist, etc. While Ashe was known as a smart player, not a brute, and he wrote some books, I'd be hard pressed to get an athlete from Mercury. I think one person mentioned Mercury by the Sun as being a sign of athleticism.

As a point of technique, how do you see the career here? OK, we have three planets in the 10th, Mercury, the Sun and Jupiter. How do we get a tennis career out of this?

I think we all got the warm humanitarian nature of the person right.

A round of applause for Tony for getting so much about the early life.
Mark F

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Also just reposting my sumation here, cause I think I did hit a lot of salient points...

"My overall impression is someone who is athletic, in the public eye, possibly civil rights activist, dies/died tragically, I think already has died because of the Venus, and all the other indicators, probably in the late 80?s or in the 90?s, but I?m fairly certain deceased. Dziben culminating just doesn?t look good. Possibly person is also related to money struggles? Failed business dealings? probably either married late or not at all, and also possibly had few children if any, I'd suspect one or two at most. "

and I'd forgotten I also noted the significator of CApricorn, conj the goat star noting a nimble person...

sigh, my methods may seem odd, but I do believe I hit the salient points,
Granny!

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Hindsight is a wonderful tool. I would not have considered "tennis player" for career when I first looked at the chart. While it is true that a prominent Mercury (manual dexterity and mobility) is common in charts of tennis players, I was more stuck by the Cancer MC and the Sun close to the MC - a prominent person who is known for his compassion and empathy.

A second look (with hindsight) reveals that the ASC-ruler Venus closely trines Mars (athleticism) and recieves Mars by domicile, triplictiy, and term. In addition, Jupiter, which rules the MC by exaltation and occupies the 10th, closely squares Mars. Thus, Mars is closely connected to his sense of self (ASC) through Venus and to his profession (MC) through Jupiter. With Mars in aspect with both benefics, it is not surprising that athletics played a favorable role in his life.

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Tom pointed it out to me that since athletes have such short careers, that it?s no surprise that their first career in sports might not scream out Mars.

The real question is what does the 10th house mean? Does it show the career or the what the person is known for? That?s wonderful what you said about the Sun in Cancer, which also rules the mid-heaven ? being known for compassion.

The other question is what is Arthur Ashe known for? His tennis? While most people still refer to him as a tennis player, it?s not his game that got him a statue on Richmond?s walk of fame street of statues, the first and only black person there.

The other thing that I don?t see in this chart is the really bad fate that gave Ashe athletic skills, followed by a heart ailment and AIDS. I?ve always thought about him as someone both blessed and cursed. Maybe that is Sirius on the mid-heaven. Perhaps the death dealing dog-bite (which I assume causes death by rabies) is the surgery and the disease of AIDS.

From that fixed stars website, ?a famous death with honors beyond the grave, if positioned in the 8th house.? Well it?s not the 8th house but that sure fits.

I?m all up for another one!
Mark F

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I have so much to say about this chart, most of which I've learned from this thread, that I won't be able to get it into a single post. Let's start with the athlete.

How many people get to play at the highest level of sport in terms of percentage of the general population? Damn few. In fact the number is a tiny fraction of 1%. For example there are 300,000,000 people living in the USA and fewer than 1000 play professional baseball at the highest level, and of that thousand, perhaps 50 are at the top of the game. I don't know that many charts are going to scream "professional athlete!"

Secondly I'll relate a story I was told by a woman whose husband once played professional football in the NFL. Her husband was a very good first string player enjoying a solid career, until, like a lot of football players, injuries forced him out. He married and had two sons. One of which was bigger and faster than his father, and according to his father was a better player than the old man. The son never played pro football. He didn't have the desire. What the public sees is the finished product - the guy who makes it look easy. Tennis looks like the easiest game in the world if your only exposure is to the Wimbledon final on TV. Ashe was so graceful he made it look absurdly easy, but he worked very hard to get to the top and the public doesn't see that.

So yes, he has some Mars contacts, but it was Saturn that gave him the discipline and determination to succeed. And Saturn is the exaltation ruler of the ASC. There is more to athletics than Mars.

Secondly we're all snowed by the Gauquelin data. We look for an angular Mars and think "athlete." The problem is that Gauquelin found Mars statisticaly prominent, i.e. more than chance. Chance is a lot less than 50% + 1. In fact out of I think about 3000 charts of known star athletes fewer than 600 had Mars on an angle but that is better than chance. So the prominent Mars is an indication, but we'll be wrong far more than we'll be right if we assume that Mars on an angle means an athlete or Mars nowhere near an angle means non-athlete. Add to that the fact that lots and lots of non professional athletes have Mars on an angle (ahem), and the idea of an angular Mars indicating athletics seems remote. Ashe's Mars falls outside the Gauquelin sector of the 7th house I believe.

Ashe's game was fluid, graceful and at times powerful. Venus rules his ASC and she is disposed by a prominent Mercury. But he played in the days of wooden racquets so thinking was also important. Australia's Rod Laver is arguably the greatest tennis player of all time, yet he wouldn't blast anyone off the court. He had the strokes but he also had the mind for the game and he was as likely to out think you as out power you.

The next point is the frequent reference to scholarship. I think this was pretty good as far as it goes, but it involves a little bit of projection on our part. Everyone who is reflective, as Arthur Ashe was is not necessarily a professonal scholar. I think the chart shows us that the mind dominates the personality. It doesn't nececarily mean the native is a college professor, or lives the contempletive life. Those are the extremes and as such are easily identifiable, but the guy next store can be thoughtful and reflective and sell insurance for a living. I'm not sure the chart distinguishes all that much.

What the chart does seem to be able to show is prominence. I am increasingly coming to believe that the 10th is one potential indicator of career and nothing more. I think we place too much emphasis on the tenth and not enough on the overall chart to determine career. Morin called the 10th the house of honors as well as action. And in America it is true that when we inquire about a person's career we ask, "What do you do?" But having the natural significator of honors at the top of the chart near the MC and the Moon, ruler of the MC in the first house bringing honors to the native through his own efforts, recognition, if not outright fame is certainly indicated. However one doesn't immediately think "sports" or "activist" or "writer" when he sees Cancer on the MC. The 10th is part of it, but not all of it.

This leads to the Sun - Moon square and I'll put that on another post.

Tom

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The next point is the frequent reference to scholarship. I think this was pretty good as far as it goes, but it involves a little bit of projection on our part. Everyone who is reflective, as Arthur Ashe was is not necessarily a professonal scholar. I think the chart shows us that the mind dominates the personality. It doesn't nececarily mean the native is a college professor, or lives the contempletive life. Those are the extremes and as such are easily identifiable, but the guy next store can be thoughtful and reflective and sell insurance for a living. I'm not sure the chart distinguishes all that much.
He wrote a 3-volume history on black athletes in America that is still called ?definitive?. Someone who sits down to that task is a scholar and not just reflective! I think if we clear our minds somewhat of fame and prominence concerning the chart native the scholar may make himself more visible.

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He wrote a 3-volume history on black athletes in America that is still called ?definitive?. Someone who sits down to that task is a scholar and not just reflective!
I think this makes my point, that perhaps could have been expressed a bit better. He was not just reflective, no one said that. He also was not just a scholar or just an athlete. Those are things he did. Those are things that made up who he was. I'm trying to avoid putting people in a pigeonhole.

Remember too, a successful professional athlete has options after his or her retirement that most of us don't have. We look forward to a pain free old age when we think of retirement. An athlete is still young, a ways away from middle age and a long way from old age. Throw in a lot of money and you get to realize other potentials.

Arthur Ashe had one child a little girl, born December 21, 1986.

Tom

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Sun Moon Square

I was immediately struck by Tony Louis? observation of a possible loss during early childhood. It isn?t as though I?d never heard of the importance of planets being close to angles or that planets close to angles are progressed or directed to those angles early in life. It is Tony?s profession that brought this home. Tony is a psychiatrist, and he said he looked for early directions to angles for rectification purposes and then mentioned the potential for early trauma that the chart showed.

It struck me that a metal health professional would naturally gravitate toward early childhood trauma in the chart to shape the native's future. In a real consultation we might ask, "what happened about age 6 or 7?" A trained mental health professional is going to know what to do with the information far better than an astrologer who is untrained, but is this something we should be paying more attention to in readings? I would think so.

I?m not a mental health professional, but it seems to me that consciously or otherwise, Ashe losing his mother at age 7 has to be important. Yes, his father did a magnificent job holding the family together throughout the tragedy and providing a good life for his children, and that may have blunted what could have been trouble, but Arthur Ashe is human and this must have had an effect.

In his memoir, Days of Grace, Ashe revealed that he spent some time with a psychiatrist learning just that. He said he didn't really remember his mother all that much, but he felt an emptiness as a result of the loss, and after his retirement, he made several visits to a psychiatrist to discuss that. He doesn't tell us more, and although it might be interesting, he doesn?t have to tell us more.

But moving back to general astrology, such directions, or progressions particularly when they are so tight and their results are felt so early must be particularly important in shaping the individual. We might all benefit from learning how some of those effects are likely to manifest. Now if the directions are very close, then the native is not likely to recall what happened, but it might be interesting if he or she could find out what if anything those directions meant at age 2, 3, or 4.

So Ashe has a tight Sun - Moon square on the 10th and first respectively. As an example I used the Moon crossing his ASC by direction as indicating the death of his mother, but the more I thought about it, the more I think the Sun crossing the MC is a better symbol for it. Either way, the square was variously delineated as things like "trouble with women," or "troubled marriage." By all accounts his 16-year marriage was a good one, but none of us will ever know that for sure. Ashe briefly mentioned other relationships with women by noting that when he broke them off, his ex girlfriends would remark that he was insensitive, cold and distant. He didn't like that. He preferred "aloof."

This is such a classic response. Saturn the significator of the manners is cold and distant and maybe insensitive, but Venus the other significator of manners and lady of the ASC didn't like that, and Moon in the first is unlikely to be insensitive. If I had to wager a small amount of money, I'd say his relationships with women were intellectual (Mercury ruling Venus). He may have been a tad uncomfortable with romance and being a good sanguine, thought his way through the problem and possibly planned a way to find a woman he thought was perfect for him and he did. Not too romantic maybe, but effective.

So I think that phrases like "trouble with women," don't really capture all that much in this chart or any other. Some men have serious problems with women and they end up murdering them, others get divorced a lot, but it takes more than a Sun Moon square or even a ruling 7th cusp planet in detriment to cause serious problems that manifest in headlines or legal fees. They can be indicative of difficulties that that native can and does handle in a socially acceptable way.

I?m wondering if the Sun on the MC overseeing the chart square the Moon doesn?t mean holding the emotions in check. This plus the dominant Saturn gives us a reserved man, which Ashe clearly was. I?m sure he wasn?t cold or insensitive to the point of nastiness much less cruelty, but he was reserved. He talks about his civil rights activism and contrasts himself to Muhammad Ali and other black athletes who spoke out and acted out. Ashe was ultimately outspoken and even got arrested at the White House, a building he was to see from the inside as a guest a couple of times. But he was certainly more reserved than Ali. A quiet dignified rebellion can have as great or greater impact than a loud mouth. Just ask Ghandi.

Another way to look at this is via the domicile rulerships. The Sun rules the 11th house of friends and the Moon rules the MC. Ashe?s fame/career brought him many close friendships. His memoir hammers on this theme.

I think this extremely tight square would be a subject to be covered in depth in a consultation and everyone who noticed it and its importance should take bow.

Tom

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This whole thread has been so interesting! I for one had never heard of Arthur Ashe (being a 38 years old woman from Northern Europe), but it doesn't matter. There's been many good delineations and many good techiques, but because I'm currently especially interested in receptions, I look at them. I think the fact that debilitated Mars is received by Venus who is in turn received by Mercury is significant. Venus being the Asc ruler could signify his bad physical condition, but he was able to turn it a good thing by educating (=Mercury the 9th ruler) people about AIDS and death. Mercury gave dignity to the otherwise debilitated Venus.