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Ipswich Serial Killer
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Tom
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Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Susan,

I don't want to go too far afield here, since it gets non astrological, but there are a couple of astrological points to be made.

Reagarding Gilder: his work boils down to a very basic fact (yes fact) that men and women are different. Not better, not worse, not smarter (although using standard IQ tests women do tend to score slightly higher than men), not dumber, just different. Men and women, it seems, compliment each other; they are not identical except for a few body parts. This idea so offended TV host Oprah Winfrey that when Geroge Gilder brought up the subject on her show (to which she invited him knowing who he was) she threw him off the stage! She should choke thenext tie the words "free speech" cross her mind.

Gilder's point re:crime is this. The overwhelming (and the statistics of the time were overwhelming) amount of violent crime, and other anti-social behavior, suicide, drug addiction, petty crime, etc are committed by unmarried men. No one has ever challeged those statistics. When women commit those acts, there is no such single overriding factor. It is more random and therefore the reasons are probably more complex. Again this statistic is irrefutble. It is a mathematical fact. So Gilder looked at another irrefutable fact: women have a biological attachment to children that a man can never have. Try to dispute that one, Oprah. Therefore the man's attachment is purely emotional.

He then took these irrefutable facts and drew conclusions. Now here, of course anyone is free to accept or reject Gilder's arguments, but his facts are not in dispute. He then theorized that if the emotional connection a man does have with children is taken from him or denied him (We're not making accusations here just observations) that what society gets is anti-social behavior. Now we can see why the feminists get upset. Gilder is suggesting, horror of horrors, that men are necessary to the proper functioning of society and being a sperm bank and a check book are not enough. Try not to personalize this. We're not talking individuals, yet; we're talking about society.

As for a real world example, in the USA black Americans families have been decimated by social engineering and changes in social mores. public programs etc that all discourage participation of fathers. If a poor man fathers a child and is living with or supporting in any way a poor mother to whom he is not married, her government benefits can be cut off. If the amount received from the government is less than the amount of the support, an economic decision is made and the father "disappears." I'm not excusing irresponsible behavior only demonstrating that well intended programs can and do have negative effects. If the well intended programs that have negative effecs become ingrained in a society, that part of the society enters a dangerous downward spiral. If we check prison populations, the number of black males are disproportionally represented. Coincidence or is Gilder on to something? Since his thesis, and other things he thinks, are not politically correct Oprah tossed him. Good thinking.

But astrology deals with the individual and how the individual reacts to his environment. What is in the chart or what should we be looking for that would reveal some of that information? Over on the mystery chart threads we've been looking at transits, progressions and directions that occur early in life as possibly formative.

The fact is that even after horrible marriages, both men and women are highly likely to try it again, and again and again. My own theory is that after two, or certainly three marraiges one ought to spend time with a mirror. But on the extreme scale what makes one individual who cannot find a mate become simply unhappy and unproductive (married men earn more than unmarried men and tend to have higher education levels, and live longer), and another turn violent. Like I said in the previous post: are they crazy because they are unmarried or unmarried because they are crazy.

This cannot explain a nut case. We can't look at Ted Bundy and say, "Gee Ted, all you needed was a good wife." This is where Gilder may be off base, but it is hard to justify social engineering based on a deviant. Back to the astrology, what is it in Ted Bundy's chart that makes him prone to killing as an outlet for his problems? Moderns tell us, "nothing." That Ted simply exercised his free will. I have a hard time with that. I'm not trying to excuse him or indicate he didn't deserve every one of those volts that slamed through his body in Florida's electric chair. I'm only trying to understand him.


Quote:
There's always a danger in focusing on one particular feature that a group of people appear to have in common eg Saturn in Leo or a recent traumatic event. Life, people and astrology are all more complex than that.

It can lead us to overlook, for example, an individual's interaction with other people and other circumstances that may be less obvious than a divorce, but just as important.


This is why I've given up on "chart signatures." Ted Bundy and Silvio Rodriguez, a singer, were born four days apart and share many of the same chart signatures. The same is true of Adoplph Hitler and Charlie Chaplin. We have to look for far more and therefore what we seek is subtle.

Quote:
We also need to think about the astrology of victims as well as the perpetrators of crimes. This raises the idea of fate, or fatedness which we 21st century Westerners are so uncomfortable about.


I think we need to think differently about fate. The word "fate" drags up imagages of inevitablility. But is it? Sometimes. A person having been born with diabetes will be forced to live a certain way that a person without the disease will not be forced to live. But if there is an indication of victimhood in the chart, it does not necessarily mean that the victim and predator wil come into contact. If the victim never encounters a potential murderer he or she will go through life without being murdered. But under the right circumstances, if they do meet up, a horrible result can ensue. This has nothing to do with being careful either. Bundy murdered a girl sleeping in her dormitory. She did nothing to encourage him or behaved in a seriously careless manner. It was just horrible luck.

Tom
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Draco



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 176
Location: England.

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happened?

I had responded to this a few minutes ago with the Ken Gillman link, the post was published and now it's disappeared! Mad

There must be something in the air. Posts are vanishing from all forums lately.

In any case, the point I was making was, that the mundane data relevant to Ipswich is the granting of it's charter on 25th May 1200 (old style), set for midnight. Midnight, because when such and such a thing is determined to come into effect on such and such a date, the thing comes into effect when that calendar date first comes round - at midnight.

The triple conjunction of Jupiter, Mars and Mercury (a conjunction by declination too I believe) occured on 10th December, when Anelli Anderton's body was found. It was the discovery of Anderton's body, that gave rise to the explosion of 'serial killer' all over the press.

The beginning of events, in retrospect, is that last sighting of Tania Nicolls on CCTV, but in the public conciousness, the serial killer phenomenon was born on with the discovery of Anderton's body under the perfecting of the triple conjunction.

Looking at the mundane data for Ipswich, this conjunction occurs right upon the midheaven of the chart, bringing Ipswich to considerable public attention. As it would be rare for a triple conjunction to occur right on an angle of any chart, then it seems easy to understand why Ipswich had more public attention at this time than in any time in it's history. It was also the biggest police investigation ever undertaken in Ipswich, and the authorities are embodied in the midheaven.

The Sun in the Ipswich chart, is at Gemini 3, exactly opposite the triple conjunction.

I wonder why nobody else has mentioned this conjunction in relation to these events.

I would interested to know the mundane data for Atlantic City, to see what the conjunction was doing in that chart, because there must be some astrological connecting thread, linking these two areas where such uncannily similar and unusual crimes were taking place at the same time.

Okay, second try.....................
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In any case, the point I was making was, that the mundane data relevant to Ipswich is the granting of it's charter on 25th May 1200 (old style), set for midnight. Midnight, because when such and such a thing is determined to come into effect on such and such a date, the thing comes into effect when that calendar date first comes round - at midnight.


Hate to be a killjoy, but was midnight the begining of the day in 1200?

Tom
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Gem



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 954

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Stephens was arrested at 7:20am approx on 18 Dec in Trimley Felixstowe.
Stephen Wright was arrested at 5am approx on 19 Dec in Ipswich.
Can these charts show that the police arrested the right man/men?
As the police initiated the action(arresting)they get the 1st and the suspects gets the 7th.
In the first chart the police are represented by Jupiter in Sag. Though in its domicile, it's locked up in the 12th, unaspectecd except by the Moon at 29 Scorpio approaching them. The Moon's late degree suggests a rapid change of circumstances probably indicating the 2nd man's arrest the next day, before dawn, leaving Stephens no longer the sole suspect. Stephen's sig is Mercury in Sag, in Detriment but surprisingly in its own term and face retaining some degnity. It's right on the AC ---perhaps indicating the immediate wide-spread media coverage of his personal life after the arrest. Its recent square to Uranus on his MC may be to do with his being suspended from his Tesco job prior to the arrest. Although it's under the Sun's beams(the Sun ruling the 2nd part of the 8th), it will not catch up with the Sun in Sag; it's conjunct the antiscion of the Part of Fortune and it will not make any more aspect except with a square with the N Node--- so probably he'll not be charged.
In the 2nd chart the Police are Mars in Sag; the Moon has just separated from Mars(one degree)and approaching Mercury(ruling 8th and 10th). Mars also rules the 12th house of imprisoment and Moon is translating the light of Mars and Mercury to the antiscion of Venus, Wright's sig. Venus has no dignity in Capricorn and is in the turned 8th. Uranus on the IC clsosely squares Moon and sextiles Venus.... so possibly sudden changes taking place again? The 10th rulers in both charts are under teh horizon and weak, which may suggest that it may take a while for the truth to come out...
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Draco



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hate to be a killjoy, but was midnight the begining of the day in 1200?


No joy killed.

At what time did the date change in 1200? Sunrise?
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granny_skot



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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunset, and a mid day chart would probably be most sensible as it is likely that the charter was granted sometime between start of business and sunset, I would suspect... Granny
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Draco



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
sunset, and a mid day chart would probably be most sensible as it is likely that the charter was granted sometime between start of business and sunset, I would suspect...


I disagree, because when something is set to become legal at a future date, then as soon as that date comes around, i.e. at midnight, regardless of that not being the break of the diurnal day, then this is the best time to use for such mundane charts.

The charter was set to become official on the 25th of May, so the moment that the 24th turns into the 25th, and the charter becomes legal, then this is the chart to use.

In any case, it is the midnight chart that places the triple conjunction right at midheaven for Ipswich on the day that these events became recognised as a serial killer phenomenon, which speaks for itself.
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I disagree, because when something is set to become legal at a future date, then as soon as that date comes around, i.e. at midnight, regardless of that not being the break of the diurnal day, then this is the best time to use for such mundane charts.


I think the point is that the day became legal at sunrise (a far more sensible time than midnight, but it would put a damper on a lot of New Year's Eve parties). This is one of the problems we have casting old charts from dates alone. What's so special about midnight? Sunrise is at least an obvious beginning.

Tom
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Gem



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Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It emerged yesterday that Stephen Wright was notorious among prostitutes as a cross-dresser and I thought the Venus in Capricorn(his sig in the second chart) would fit that description...
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Tom
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steven Wright was charged in all five murders.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061221/ap_on_re_eu/britain_prostitutes_murdered
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amelia



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
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Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They gave his DOB too.

24 April 1958 - no time obviously.
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granny_skot



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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so venus significator is definitely significant. Granny
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SIDERUM



Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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Location: Salta, Republica Argentina

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion:
IPSWICH chart is correct for 00:00 LMT; ASC=1447' Aquarius;MC=1108'Sagitarius.
Tom Stephen (May 27, 1969) have Mars=1124'Sagitarius
Stephen Arrest (Dec 18, 2006) Mercury/Mars=1153'Sagitarius=Uran us=Nerveos,Stress!!!! in IPSWICH.
Is important the day born of women murder, for relation with Stephen.
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SusanA



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies for taking a while to get back to this thread. Thank you everyone for your contributions and very best wishes to all of you for 2007.

Tom, you've given me a heap to think about, in areas that are really interesting and important, especially the nature of fate and free will; the longer-term consequences of feminism; and the continuing efforts of men and women to understand and live with each other. (You know, just the small stuff!!)

A few comments:
On PC feminism a la Oprah: lately I've read and heard some older women involved in early NZ feminism reminiscing about how the movement changed during the seventies and - in their view - was taken over by a minority with a particular agenda, notably the exclusion of men from power, and the side-lining of family and children's issues.

Thirty years later it is sobering to realise that having a female Prime Minister and Chief Justice hasn't done much to improve the status of stay-at-home parenting, or the safety of many children in NZ.

A small woffle on astrology, fate and free will: I wonder if the natal chart can be seen as a kind of probability map, reflecting the nature of the quantum universe which seems to be both more inter-connected and less rigidly organised than the Newtonian model (from my haphazard readings on the subject). So each of us has potential for several fates and futures but which one eventuates, at least in this universe, is dependent on a series of inter-actions and connections which may or may not be made.

Leading on to Ken Gilman's article on the Dunblane massacre victims (thanks Deb for the reference): did Thomas Hamilton and the teacher & children he murdered mutually complete a kind of cosmic circuit, the design of which astrology is one way of describing? And if a small part of the circuit had not been in place - eg Hamilton or one of the children had lived somewhere else - maybe that event wouldn't have happened. Something else would have happened, but not the event we know and remember. (I must go back and read about Schrodinger's cat...).

Finally, thanks Draco for the Ipswich data and delineations. I'm with you on the use of the midnight time for the taking-effect of a charter, unless we have another, specific time on that day. My only authority for that is Mundane Astrology by Baigent, Campion and Harvey, which includes a number of national & organisation charts set for 00:00, when Acts, Constitutions and other kinds of planned legislation "come into force".
I'd still argue though for the "last seen" or death chart of the first victim as marking the beginning of this series of events - assuming, of course, there were no earlier victims.
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Gem



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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the trial chart will have to be drawn if we want to see whethter he'll be found guilty.
During the time Steve Wright was a pub landlord in the 80s, two female bodies were found in the vicinity of his pub. Police are investigating whether he had anything to do with them too.

Siderum-- where did you find Tom Stephens' date of birth? Do you know his place of birth?
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