Pingree book on Rhetorius

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Hi-
Many Pingree books mentioned to be in preparation never actually come out. There was , for instance, a volume on Dorotheus mentioned in Pingree's commentary on 'the Yavanajataka' that, for example, never saw the light of day.

That said, the good news is that despite their expense many college libraries continue to buy anything puts out with Pingree's name on it. I believe that down the road other translations of Rhetorius will be available. I think James Holden has translated the greater portion of Rhetorius but is missing a few chapters. It may well be that when this current Pingree edition sees the light of day (here's hoping) that other , more affordable translations will follow, particularly if the entire manuscript in Latin is all there.

We are fortunate insofar as more and more skilled astrologers are learning Latin. I believe in the new future Ben Dykes will be publishing translations of both Bonatti and Sahl ibn Bishr (Zahel). Rob Hand is supposed to come through with some Haly Abenragel. Perhaps the recent excellent edition of Al-Qabisi (Alchabitius) published by the Wharburg Institue is more widely available in England as well?

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Hi Scott, and welcome to the forum!

Yes, I am delighted to think about all the translations that might become available to us in the not-too-distant future. I would love it if James Holden were to translate Rhetorius -- I have all of his available Morinus translations and they have become a mainstay for me. Thank you for the notice about the other books that are in the works! There is much to be thankful for.

I hope that you will enjoy the Rhetorius volume from Pingree -- how wonderful that you have studied Greek!

Morin translations by Holden

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The Morin method teaching school known as the 'Forum on Astrology' states in this page that he has also already translated books 13, 14, 15 and 25 of the Astrologia Gallica, and that they were expected to be published last year (2006). I take this as a strong indication that at least some of them are likely to be published in 2007, and if not all, the rest will probably follow in 2008! That is, unless there is some problem delaying publication of course.

http://www.forumonastrology.com/holden.html

I should think it most likely that Robert Schmidt will have looked in considerable depth at Rhetorius already, and subscribers to Project Hindsight's second edition series of translations are likely to reap the fruits of his knowledge in due course, although it may be a few years down the running order of publications, in which case perhaps James Holden's rumoured translation will arrive in the stores first! (By the way, for any non-subscribers reading this, although the second series of Project Hindsight's translations was first publicised through the relaunched Project Hindsight website around February 2004, and the first fascicle was then slated for going to print in April 2004, further research by Robert Schmidt requiring a revision of his understanding of certain key semantic concepts in the literature of Greek astrology has delayed the final launch of the entire series by almost three years since then, and it is now expected that the first fascicle will be published in the early months of 2007, so it is certainly not too late to sign up in time for the entire series.)

I think I'll have to follow in your footsteps with learning some ancient Greek, Scott! It must come in useful for understanding many of these texts from the source, which is always preferable to relying on translations.

Philip

Rob Hand's translations

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I do hope that the long-awaited second and third books from Johann Sch?ner's 'De Iudiciis Nativitatum Libri Tres' will be among Rob Hand's priorities for publication! There are no originals available for sale in Latin at any price currently, and his existing translation of the first book leaves one hungry for the second and third, although I believe these are shorter books.

His website has mentioned that the second and third books are forthcoming for at least three years now. Of course, his study commitments have had to come first, so everything else understandably had to be put on hold, but it would certainly be sad if these translations never saw the light of day.

Philip

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Hi Philip! Like you, I'm hoping that the next two volumes of Schoener will become available soon. I think that Robert Hand is working on a book of his own about dignities and hopes to have it available by the time of UAC in May 2008, and maybe he'll have time to publish Schoener, as well. I'm a subscriber to Project Hindsight and look forward to the new editions of Robert Schmidt's work.

More Morinus, that's my cry! I keep checking in with Astroamerica and AFA to be sure that I'm current.

Antiochus, Rhetorius, Morinus and Us!

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Hi-
The first volume of The Astrologer's Edition (the new Project Hindsight tranlation series) threatens to be upon us soon. Last summer at the Hindsight Conclave I saw a mock up of the actual cover. It's my understanding that much of the Rhetorius work is a paraphrase of an earlier Antiochus tome (not the Thesaurus but another work), but there is so much information rattling around in my brain these days it's possible I am mistraken!

There is one very good home study system for learning Koine Greek available. With CDs on lecture, a textbook, and work book (with optional answer key), it is the preferable means for scholars wanting to do self study...its by William D. Mounce. I will have to check the title. It's NOT Biblical Greek for the Rest of Us. Thats his work more geared to the general reader who does not desire to read the actual texts! Amazon has the Mounce book. (I think it's called 'Basics of Biblical Greek').

I believe James Holden has a couple of more volumes of Morinus tranlated and awaiting publication from AFA. Please all do continue to badger the AFA to get these books in print asap! <lol> Meanwhile I doff my baseball cap to the AFA for having gotten these earlier volumes of Holden's translation out to the world at large.

Project Hindsight is any day now supposed to publish The Hellenistic Astrology Sourcebook, an intro collection of texts and lessons pertaining to
Greek astrology. Not too late to order it...I have the earlier editions which were privately publ;ished in tandem with the course on Hellenistic astrology taught by Demetra George at kepler College.

Has anybody here read 'A Brief History f Ancient Astrology'. The author is a skeptic and mostly in the thrall of Barton and Bouche-Leclerq but so far it's rather good.

all my best,

Scott

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Hi Scott! I haven't read "A Brief History of Ancient Astrology." There are so many books I'd love to get my hands on.

I am delighted to hear that AFA has more Morinus translations in the pipeline and am eagerly awaiting the Astrologers Edition volumes from Project Hindsight.

The Greek home-study material sounds very interesting. I might look into that, not because (at age 57) I stand much chance of becoming proficient enough to read original texts, but so that I'll have a better grasp of pronunciation and general feeling for the language.

Scholastic books

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One reason these books are expensive is the compiler / translator has to be paid for his time. Takes a very long time to track down all the various pieces scattered over the world & make some sense of them. David Pingree published his translation of Dorotheus 30 years ago, and along with it, published at least as many untranslated fragments he could not fit anyplace. Some people, looking at those fragments, think there's a mine of information still to be translated.

I myself would gladly commission translations of Rhetorius & Vettius Valens, at least as I fear both will be badly translated, but I do not have the money to do so. It is certain that ordinary astrologers cannot afford to pay for skilled translators. There's just not enough of us to make a real market.

One solution, once the academic tome has been published & distributed, is to get the publisher's permission for a "popular" edition. One lacking the original language (eg, half the size) & in a cheap paperback binding, which are unattractive to academic libraries. With a few exceptions, university libraries, not professors, are the primary market for high priced academic editions.

Rob Hand is busy with Ph.D. studies at a Catholic university near Washington DC. As I understand things, he needs the degree to teach at Kepler. I do not know what his plans are, but I am not hopeful he will soon delight us with new translations. Instead of waiting for a savior, we should look to ourselves.

The AFA will soon publish Morin's book 25. It should be by the end of March. I suspect there will soon be changes with that grey old lady.

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Hi Dave! Your idea about the publication of "popular editions" of Rhetorius (and other classical authors) is excellent and I also see the financial implications of that -- expensive for publishers and needing a solid unfluctuating base of buyers. I have purchased books from you for years and really appreciate your work and your information (Dave is the owner of Astrology Center of America, and publisher of wonderful editions under the imprimatur of Astrology Classics) -- thank you for responding to this thread, and welcome to the forum!

Yes, I do recognize that Rob Hand's time is limited, with so many academic commitments. It is good to know that AFA is about to issue another volume of Morinus, that is really something to look forward to.

Further delay to Rhetorius publication

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The publication of the Teubner critical edition in Greek of Rhetorius's 'Compendium Astrologicum', which had already been postponed heavily to November this year having first been available as a pre-order in 2006, has now been put back further to September 2008, almost two years after pre-orders were first being accepted and eighteen months after the originally anticipated fulfilment date for those pre-orders. It would appear that things have been moving slowly at Walter de Gruyter Verlag since its purchase of K. G. Saur Verlag, which in turn had earlier purchased the Teubner back-catalogue.

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Wow, that is a slowdown! Thank you for this update. I decided not to preorder eons ago when I learned that the book would be entirely in Greek and Latin, but was hoping that it would be available to scholars in short order...this is a disappointment.