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Will Donald stay in his marriage?

1 by Moondance7
Querent is Venus, Donald is Mars, I am Saturn in bad shape in the 11th house. Maybe that's why I can't read this chart. The Part of Divorce is 19 degrees Gemini, but Mars does not aspect it. My problem, as always, is what significator should I assign to the marriage? If we say 10th house, then moon conjuncting POD is significant.

If we say the second wife is represented by the turned 8th, then she shares Mars with Donald. Should we use (may the gods forfend!) Pluto as co-ruler of Mars for the wife? Mars as significator of Donald is very strong in Capricorn where Mars is exalted, and should be read as being in the 4th house, according to the 5 degree rule. Does this make him angular? Does someone see clearly what significator the marriage or the wife should be assigned?

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2 by Labalance
Forgive me if I am totally off, since I am a beginner, but wouldn't the wife be represented by the turned 7th? That's the house of partnerships, right? Also, wouldn't that mean that she is represented by Venus (I'm not certain how that works when the querent is supposed to be Venus as well). But if I'm on the right track, there's a very good aspect between Venus and Mars.

3 by Moondance7
I always thought the second wife was shown by the second from the 7th. In any case, I misread the house significator-it is Venus, but I am still uncomfortable sharing the significator of the querent. I know Lily sometimes uses the moon as significator of the wife, or so it says in the horary section. I'm stll confuesed. Some help from the more skillful than I?

4 by piglet
Hi Moondance7,

Trying to avoid being too blunt here, but who is Donald, and why are you asking this question? The querent and Donald are applying in very favourable conditions, but I am confused as to why you have assigned yourself to either the 4th house or the 5th house, meaning a 'love' question, unless you are somehow involved with Donald (?), in which case, the question is really about you and Donald, with you as Venus and Donald as Mars.. According to Lilly the Moon represents wives, Venus sweethearts, so wife would be the Moon. Are we missing something from the equation, perhaps? Third party questions just don't work that well, from what I've read. Sorry to sound so nosy, but I agree that this question doesn't make much sense if we don't have the context...

Cheers,
piglet

5 by Moondance7
No point in worrying about being blunt, Piglet, because I don't know anyway. The querent is a volunteer in a program I am connected with and I won't see her til the end of the month. I don't know if Donald is someone she's carrying on with, a relative, or a friend. I gave him 7th house because she asked by using his given name. My problem is what represents the marriage[if the significators of the querent and the marriage are the same./i] This must happen in a lot of charts, so there must be some kind of rule. Anyone know? :D

6 by 1000Camels
I've done one or two divorce charts, it's never pretty but reception usually tells the tale.

If we give the quesited Mars, the Moon receives Mars and Saturn receives Mars. These two planets may represent Moondance.

What initially caught my eye about this chart is the point of fortune. It sits right on the weeping sisters. In the 8House, your point of treasure becomes the point of 'misfortune'. It is disposited by Venus who's in joy, exalted. Venus is quite happy where she is, but Moondance doesn't seem to be very happy. Thus, I think Venus is the wife ruining things, although in love triangle charts Saturn may be the ruin-er too.

Moon applies trine to 12H ruler Mercury and to Saturn, this is not a happy influence in my estimation. The Moon is in the sign that's cadent to it's domicile, that's not great either, it might be better if the Moon had some help from Jupiter or some other fortunate planet. Yet she has opposed Jupiter in the past. Soon the Moon will move into the sign of its strength, that's something to look forward to.

The only planet that Mars seems to have any interest in dealing with is Venus, with whom he is in mutual reception; Mars is in dignity and angular he thinks about and does what is best for himself and in this case it's Venus. He cares for her and there doesn't appear to be anything on the horizon to undermine that applying sextile. Mars seems to bear little interest in the Moon sad to say; he receives Moon and Saturn only in face, Moondance may be merely on the very peripheries of his life I'm afraid.

So sorry :(

7 by Moondance7
1000camels, I don't think you read my answer, above. This is not my question, I am not the querent. If you are saying moon represents the querent, fine. The answer then becomes "Donald" stays in the marriage if Venus, turned L7, represents the marriage. Is this what you are saying? I have never heard of anyone representing the astrologer as the moon.

8 by piglet
Okay, whew! :)

I would avoid answering a question like this purely on ethical grounds, but that's just me.

The question is actually about the querent and Donald, not about Donald and his wife if we look to the heart of it and look at the planets involved. I believe there was another thread on here some time ago about a similar 'third party' question, and if I recall this was the answer there as well. In which case, the querent and Donald are applying so their relationship is developing and they are both feeling strong about it, both being in exaltation and Venus in the 5th of lovers. I'd take yourself right out of it, IMO, and not assign yourself anywhere to the chart. The moon is the wife, there are no applying aspects between her and Mars, no reception, so 'no relationship', or at least the relationship may continue as is for the time being; there is no square or opposition either applying or separating for quite some time.

However, if this *isn't* about a romance question, it would be an entirely different reading! Perhaps it would be a good idea to get the context before trying to guess who the players are?

That's my thruppence worth, I guess.

Cheers,

piglet

9 by Moondance7
Thanks, Piglet. I need to remember to ask people more info instead of immediately trying to answer a question for them. Somehow, I doubt this is a romance question, I suspect Donald is a relative, but I won't ask you to re-read it. This querent is a little old lady, (happily, I hope)married to a little old guy. I appreciate your input.

10 by 1000Camels
Apologies, when I read that you considered yourself Saturn and that this was a divorce chart I assumed the question was for you.

I agree with Piglet then, take yourself out of the chart unless the 7H of advisors and counselors is afflicted.

I would go so far as to say that Venus is the querent, and then I would give the Moon and Saturn to the wife. And typically Saturn plays (or tries to play) the spoiler.

Since the significators are so strong and applying, it's shows the relationship developing. I would look at all the other aspects are simply providing background info. Both significators are in the dignities of Venus also, somewhere on this site I read that this is very positive too.

I would suggest that the applications between Mercury the Moon and Saturn may have something to do with some 12H information coming out. Neptune is on the cusp of the 5H, this love affiar has been shrouded in secrecy I suspect. Especially since Venus is ruling the POF which is so debilitated. Perhaps this is when the wife learns about this triangle business? That's all I have for now.
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