Mystery Chart No. 8

1
Let's see if we can figure out why this native is famous.

Female
June 4, 1928
4:00 AM CET - 1 hr
Frankfurt am Main, Germany
50 N 07
008 E 40

5 Gemini 37 rises

Note: Placidus cusps are a little rough with this chart. If anyone wishes to use Equal or Whole sign houses, fine, just let us know which house system you are using.

Image


Tom

2
native seens to me a "Mata Hari" kind of woman. Am I too far off ?
She is sanguine, with mercury ruling the first and 5th, in the second, in an water sign. Venus is in the ASC, with some generosity with mercury, combust by the sun (secrets ?).
She seems to have a great deal of problems with the father and home (sun ruler of 4th afflicted by north node and saturn).
Jupiter in the 12th, ruling 7th and 8th, mars ruler of the 12th besieged between saturn, uranus and pluto venus co-ruler of the 12th in the asc, makes me think that she had a lot of enemies and was often betrayed by allies, husbands and "friends". She seens to have experienced some violent epishodes in her life.
Is a night chart, of a woman born a day after a lunar eclipse... the luminar moon applies to Jupiter in the 12th, ruler of 8th. The years of alchocoden also seem weak, so I guess she didn?t have a long life ?

4
Hi,

Another sexy female chart! But unlike Mystery chart#6, she is unlikely to be in prison.

Air and Fire are the very dominant elements, earth is lacking completely. So I think she is an intellectual (air) activist (fire), not restricted by traditions or conventions (earth).

Venus is prominent on the AC, trined by the MC. An open, friendly person, good-looking. Very sensual, Venus is in the midst of the constellation Taurus.

Deep and sudden sexual passions ? born half a day after a total lunar eclipse of Saros Cycle 129 or 7 North (from: ?the eagle and the lark? by B. Brady). I found these Saros interpretations highly accurate in most cases ? hence my introduction!

The eastern hemisphere is dominant ? a person centred in herself, self-motivated.

Sun, Venus, Jupiter and Mars are in strong Gauquelin Sectors ? quite a dominant appearance, demanding respect, combative. ? Mars is also the final dispositor.
Endurance, focus and big energy ? Mars Sextile Sun, trine Saturn, and square Pluto. Emphasized by a star paran aspect Mars to Facies (? Facies is the penetrating stare of a lethal weapon?; Brady)

Uranus is the most elevated planet, representing the public sphere ? unconventional, freedom-loving. It receives a square from Mercury ? unconventional, even provoking ideas put in the public scene. ? Writing and speaking are emphasized by the star parans Mercuy ? Castor (skilled with words and language), Mercury ? Alphard (revealing secrets), Mercury ? Facies (VERY sharp tongue).
Inspiration coming from Neptune at the lowest altitude, with a trine from Jupiter.

Intimate long term partnership and family life are probably not very important or even unfortunate. A Lunar Eclipse near Saturn ? in the 7th house ? I only see the Moon, Saturn and the South Node close to each other in the West, opposite the Sun. Looks rather sad and difficult.
Assuming that the birth time is accurate, Moon and Saturn make Primary Directions 1939 / early 1940. AC opposite Moon 03/1939, AC opposite Saturn 01/1940. Family torn apart due to the Nazi terror in WW2? The fate of many Jewish families at that time.

The Primary Direction of the AC to Mercury, the chart ruler, was in May 1956. Being 28 years of age then and having the first Saturn return, this might have been the time for her to find her vocation ? writing and/or speaking.

It?s late and I need some sleep now

Cheers, Ren?

5
Hi 3D.

There are some really good things in your post. I laughed out loud when I read:

(? Facies is the penetrating stare of a lethal weapon?; Brady)
Not because it is way off mind you, rather the opposite. Please do not make too much of this statement as it is not the main thrust of the native's life, but it is so appropriate for a particular time period. I'll have to spend a little more time with Brady.

As for the accuracy of the birth time, it is rated A. I tweaked it to 4:02:30 am and had some reasonably impressive hits with primary directions using the Naibod Key. They aren't exact mind you. In fact the biographical information that I used does not give too many exact dates. I get the month and year, if I'm lucky, and usually only the year.

This may not be the precise time of birth, I just fiddled with the time in order to make a couple of documented events work out. Besides the 2 and one-half minute difference between this and what I posted will make no difference using anything other than primary directions.

Good job.

Tom

6
Hi Tom,

I?m always pleased to make people laugh and cheer them up! :lol:

For Primary Directions (always in mundo, only to the angles), I use the old Babylonian key 4 minutes (civil time) = 1 year. Thereby, I take into consideration the proper motion of the Sun, Moon and planets with the same time key. It can make a difference of several years for the Moon and up to a year for the planets. This should actually be called PRIMARY PROGRESSIONS!
As an approximation, I use Ptolemy, 1? of RA = 1 year. I?m lazy, and this feature is included in Solar Fire. For the old Babylonian method, I need an editable version of rising/setting/culminating/anticulminating time of the solar system bodies and put it into a ?handwoven? Excel Sheet.
But all these keys are confusing, and it can become a bit of hair-splitting, as you often don?t know the exact birth minute and second. KISS!:D

Ren?

7
Hi Rene,

I ought to take the time to state how I get the primary directions I cite in order to clarify the record and expand on something you said.

I use Rumen Kolev's program Placidus to calcuate primaries. This program can calculate primary directions in virtually, perhaps literally, every known method. This is both the strength and a weakness of the program. There are so many choices that yield so many different hit dates for the same event that one is tempted to give up the practice altogether. However this is also the reason the traditional writers who used primaries insisted that their method was the correct one. The astrologer had to pick a single method and stay with it. Ahhh but which one? Well, we have to play a bit.

As you stated we rarely, if ever, know a birth time to the second and that can make a big difference in the hit date. To give one example I'll use my own chart in order to avoid confusing anyone on the mystery chart.

Let's use Moon directed to the MC in mundo and we'll use my birth certificate time.

Key of Ptolemy gives a hit date of Dec 10, 1995
Key of Placidus Dec 25, 1999
Key of Cardan Aug 2, 1996
Key of Naibod Aug 21, 1996
Key of Kepler Jan 10, 1998

All the above are calculated for the same birth time, and there are other keys.

Let's subtract 15 seconds from the birth time:

Ptolemy: Jan 1, 1996
Placidus: Jan 17, 2000
Cardan: Aug 24, 1996
Naibod: September 12, 1996
Kepler: Feb 1, 1998

Fifteen seconds makes a difference of several weeks, at my age in 1996 - 2000. An older native with another 15 second time difference would make the hit dates even farther apart.
So what do we do? Abandon primaries? No, as I am increasingly discovering the answer, or at least one sensible answer is given, as usual, by Morinus. If you get a hit in a particular year, that means that it is a significant year. It does not mean the event will occur on the day of the hit. We can, and with Kolev's program it is easy, jiggle a birth time to coincide exactly with an important date or at least within one day. That gives us one direct hit, but if nothing else matches, that is not much of a rectification. I say forget the exact date. In my case above, Cardan, Naibod and Kelper were closest to an actual event. My father passed away on Oct 1, 1997. The Moon is intercepted in the 11th in her own sign therefore ruling the 8th of the 4th. If I played with this a little I could modify my birth time a bit and get the exact date and from there look for other events that fit.

For the above reasons, and because I don't have the spare time or sufficiently well timed information to rectify every single chart that comes across my desk, I look at the hits and from there work with the solar return, or maybe with two solar returns to see how that works out. I did that with our mystery chart and it worked pretty well. I'm not done with primaries by a long shot, but I think using them for precise prediction is a bit like trying to do brain surgery with a hammer and chisel. I suppose it is possible in some cases, but I wouldn't want to be the patient.

Tom

8
Hi Tom,

Primaries are one of my favourite subjects in Astrology.

(my apologies to Forum members who are not interested in Primaries; this is not specifically about Mystery Chart#8. So don?t read further if you?re only interested in Mystery Chart8)
Tom wrote:I use Rumen Kolev's program Placidus to calcuate primaries. This program can calculate primary directions in virtually, perhaps literally, every known method. This is both the strength and a weakness of the program. There are so many choices that yield so many different hit dates for the same event that one is tempted to give up the practice altogether. However this is also the reason the traditional writers who used primaries insisted that their method was the correct one. The astrologer had to pick a single method and stay with it. Ahhh but which one? Well, we have to play a bit.
I also have Rumen Kolev?s Placidus, plus his excellent 2 booklets on Primaries, and I?m glad to hear I?m not the only one a bit confused with the many primary keys. I spent a lot ? and I mean really a lot - of time and racked my brain to find ?right? key. After giving that venture up, I settled with the old Babylonian key 4 minutes = 1 year (delivered the best matches), from 2 other Kolev programs called Babylonia and Sumer (I think this one?s still in the draft stage, but he sent it to me anyway). His booklet on Babylonian Astrology is a real treasure and has inspired me a lot. I like the 3-dimensional views (that?s why my name is 3D) in Placidus and Sumer. Sumer and Babylonia are ok for animations with this old key, but for an aspect hit list I need an Excel sheet and the rising/setting/etc. times of the planets. I find his programs excellent, especially for rectification, but not very convenient (city database etc.). And since Solar Fire does the Primary in mundo job for Ptolemy and Naibod, it?s the program I am using most of the time.

Besides the Primary I use Secondary and sometimes Tertiary and Minor Progressions. A nice mix of time keys, I would call them Time Fractals.

Ren?

9
Hi Tom,

I think the most significant planets with regard to her fame would be Venus rising and Saturn (MC-ruler) conjunct the Moon in the 7th (and opposite the Sun in the first). Venus rising gives the woman attractiveness, popularity, and a need to relate, but it is in Gemini which is more communicative than desire-based. Relationships are highlighted again with the 7th house themes; but with the Saturn emphasis I can?t see her public image being based upon ?voluptuousness? ? at least not for her personally. Also, 7th-ruler is Jupiter (a freedom seeking planet) in the 12th so I think we are either looking at situations that involve freedom from opponents or relationship issues that involve ?hard work? or have negative undertones. So I am going for a writer because I think this is a woman who is known for being sexually liberated, but it is because it is her job rather than her personal motivation (?). Either someone who writes raunchy or shocking novels, or who writes politically about sexual/relationship issues, (for example a prominent ?woman libber'). Probably the former because of Neptune on the 5th house cusp ? does she write the kind of novels that are based on sexual fantasies? My last pluck would be someone who became famous for marrying an older man.

The Sun is sextile Mars so I think she is seen as outspoken and a ?go getter?, and with Mars conjunct Uranus on the 12th house I think she is either known for, or has tendency to explode secrets or reveal ?truths? that most people find painful or disturbing.

The ascendant-ruler is Mercury (again, I think she is a ?communicator?), in Cancer in the 2nd house. With this and the Saturn themes I?d say she has had it hard financially, and so her motivation for what she is known for is that she is ?doing it for the money?. I guess that applies to most people though :)

I await the revelation ?
Deb
Last edited by Deb on Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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:sg give us a clue Kirk...

[Later addition, better add 'just joking' in case Tom is looking in. But I would like a bit of feedback to see if I'm on the right track or miles off - I had some other comments but don't want to go too far in the wrong direction]