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Mercury retrograde calls Bush bluff?
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:18 pm    Post subject: Mercury retrograde calls Bush bluff? Reply with quote

Although I find the Iranian plans of Uranium enrichment highly disturbing, I am equally disturbed by the recent shaking of US swords and George Bush Jr. ordering a second US Aircraft Carrier to the Gulf-region, re. news of Feb 20. 2007. I cannot spot the astrological build-up in this region at present and Mercury retrograde in Pisces (water) makes me want to call his bluff. Or do we witness another erronous (?) decision by the Bush administration with the potential of plunging the President into new troubles?

In April 2007 I have Bush Jr's Solar Age Point (based upon the direction of his Sunrise chart http://www.astronor.com/Irak-c6.gif ) at 9CN21 (I fetched this chart from my work on the Iraq-crises at http://www.astronor.com/iraq.htm ) [ For an explaination of the Age Point go to http://www.astronor.com/apfp.htm . Bush Jr is coming up to 61 years at which time his Solar Age Point (SAP) will be 13CN42 -6= 7CN42 ]. The Solar Age Point at 9CN21 in April will cast a sextile through signs of long ascension to his natal Mars in Virgo. This may mobilize to war but with danger and much domestic conflict, controversy or trouble. The sextile through signs of long ascension leads to foolhardy action and the president will also be subject to or the target of scrutiny due to the nature of planets and signs involved, i.e. the Solar Age Point (SAP) in CN in aspect to Mars in VI.

Bush is already highly impedimented due to the presence of radix Saturn in Cancer, which has hold from Oct 2003 until Oct 2008. However, when the Autumn of 2007 arrives Bush's SAP will be square Neptune. This aspect has the potential of totally incapacitating him and he will have to find good partners of collaberation as not to go into complete disolvement. I am sure this will be put into a meaningful context as the election approaches.

In my opinion, the Astro*Cartography chart of the Lunar eclipse Aug 28. 2007 is the first clear warning of an unleashing conflict in Iran as Pluto will be on the Ascendant line close to Tehran. Check the chart here: http://www.astronor.com/LE070828.GIF

So in the end we may be in a mess. What are the options?

Andrew J. Bevan
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Tom
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bluff? Whatever one may think of George W. Bush, and his actions, he has never been accused of bluffing. If he sent a second US Carrier to the region, it is not there to bluff.

Iran on the other hand, has a third world economy and a third world conventional military. If anyone is bluffing its the mullahs. The question then, is why to they think their bluff will work, and their threat of nuclear war go unchallenged?

Tom
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SGFoxe



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:46 pm    Post subject: We can only hope Reply with quote

Mercury's very important to Bush administration -- at the GOP 2000 convention, just prior, the eclipse in Leo contacted W's pluto/mercury -- and then the vagaries of the election day 2000 mercury station infamous in midwiving ta da -- the Y2K monster, starring Dick Cheney. (Who needs access to evil with Bush/Cheney/Scalia?)

Do you remember 2001, the movie? The computer HAL??? Well, Dick Cheney's company Halliburton's ticker (as rotten as cheney's own ticker) HAL.

Brit Prince HAL off to the Wars

I did chartwork on Barack Obama last night. I'm very big on progressed lunations -- Barack will have a progressed full moon maturing February 2012 -- currently his p moon is 18 deg of cap applying to his Ju/Sa conjunction (the one from the JFK administration) at 23 cap -- this six to ten months (or so) down the line -- and might be the timer for the Bush administrations 23 TA JU/SA to trigger off Tecumseh's Curse.

Cheers from across the pond.

Sonja
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Tom
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mercury's very important to Bush administration -- at the GOP 2000 convention, just prior, the eclipse in Leo contacted W's pluto/mercury -- and then the vagaries of the election day 2000 mercury station


Mercury contacting W's Pluto/Mercury at the convention would have to do with his nomination and campaign, possibly the election, but not the administration which does not begin until Jan 20 following the November election.

The administration's chart would be taken at the time of the inauguration. The astrological problem is that we are almost forced to ignore one of astrology's most important factors, the angles. They are always the same in all the inauguration charts. The Sun is always at the MC as well. Using these charts as stand-alones is always risky as without reference to the natal chart of the President and/or the chart of the nation, they don't tell us very much except possibly with hindsight.

Mercury's station at the time of the polls closing in the EST portion of Florida had a profound effect on the election. Florida has two time zones and the media since the 1980 election has not announced which state voted for whom (always based on exit polls) prior to the polls closing. Lots of people apparently were not aware that Florida has two time zones.

The news media, who should have known better, called Florida for Gore based on exit polls before the polls closed in the heavily Republican Panhandle section in the central time zone. The voters went home. Had they voted, Florida may not have been in question at all. We'll never know. Mercury, on that day, was at his dulpicitous best.

Mercury's effect on the Bush administration would be better determined in the inauguration chart(s). But these charts are best not used as stand alone charts since the angles are always the same. Taurus always rises, and Capricorn is always on the MC as the inauguration date and time is always the same according to law. The actual swearing in will vary only by a couple of minutes. The lady of the ASC therefore is limited as to where she can be posited by sign and house. Saturn, Lord MC, moves slowly and perhaps this cycle can be put to good use by astrologers.

Mercury in the 2001 chart is in the 10th house, in Aquarius, in a partile square to Mars in Scorpio on the 7th cusp. Mars is also the exaltation ruler of the 9th which, using Placidus cusps holds Capricorn. Mercury rules the 2nd house and 6th as it would in almost every inauguration chart.

The current transiting Rx Mercury is in the 11th in the 2001 inauguration chart which holds an exalted Venus. The 2005 inauguration chart has most of Pisces in the 11th (as usual), and holds Uranus. I've never foud transits, by themselves, to be of much value.


Quote:
the Y2K monster, starring Dick Cheney. (Who needs access to evil with Bush/Cheney/Scalia?)


Yes the boogey men are everywhere as the sky falls around us, at least according to Al Gore. Scalia was appointed in 1982 by Ronald Reagan - almost 20 years prior to W's election and Gore's frivolous law suits. See Article II Section I paragraph 2 of the US Constitution. The Florida Supreme Court was absent from school the day that section was taught.

Tom
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Politics is like a game of poker. History shows that Bush made a false call prior to getting into Iraq. My guess is that Iran' uranium policy is bad news anyhow, but how can anyone say that the US in its own right can decide who should have access to nuclear weapons or not. One view would suggest that Bush conned himself into Iraq. From our experience, our understanding of the poker of politics and the law of alternation, wouldn't it be reasonable for Bush to put up a brave face regarding in this round on Iran and hope that all other players chicken out and throw their chips in? Mercury retrograde in Pisces diverges into opposites.

My fear is that, just like in a game of poker, the players get woven into the game through a sequence of bids that bring the participants to the point of no return. The lunar eclipse of Aug 2007 spells trouble if the conflict is not resolved and the chart of Bush indicates the president getting himself into a tangle, if not the uttermost caution can be show.

So let's play a game! You are, in capacity of an astrologer, your governments strategic political advisor. What sort of advice should be offered at this point of the game and how should we maneuvor? What is the trading issue that would bring this conflict to resolve? Does the US have the right to be the dominating military power in the world and does this give the right to impose ones culture and commercial values upon other societies? What is going on? How do we resolve the conflict and avoid yet another shoot-out?

Andrew
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Tom
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Andrew,

Interesting challenge but I can't accept the premise. First off without getting into too many of the details, Bush's "false call" is, to this day not only supported by the British and German sources he cited, but by the now established fact that Joe Wilson lied when he wrote his NY Times article saying Iraq hadn't tried to buy uranium from Nigeria. (See US Senate Select Committee report on this subject). The operative word is "tried." They may not have suceeded, and as far as the WMDs, we know Saddam had them, he used them on his own people! The question is what did he do with them? According to Israeli intelligence, and two of Saddam's former generals, they were shipped to Syria while we piddled and putzed with the UN over England's' entry into the war. For the record, the following people based on intelligence reports, accused Saddam of having WMDs prior to the Bush administration: Bill Clinton, Madelline Albright, Sandy Berger and current Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Bill Clinton went so far as to demand and receive legislation making the removal of Saddam as part of US foreign policy as of 1998 or 99 I've forgotten which.

My point, that should have been stated directly, is to be mindful of Lilly's quote, "Mix discretion with art." The US has the strongest coventional and nuclear military in the world - perhaps the strongest ever in world history. Iran has nothing to compare with that, much less compete. You don't bluff when you're holding a straight flush. There's no need to. Trading issue? This presupposes that all conflicts are the result of misunderstandings and can be resolved through negotiations. That one has been tried and has never worked. See WWII, among others.

"You've negotiated appeasement; you'll get war." - Winston Churchill.

Bush is not blufffing. He never has before. There is no need to do so now. We may disagree on the wisdom of a particular approach, but bluffing implies you have little or nothing in your hand. Hardly the case for the Commander in Chief of the US Armed forces, who has stated he will continue to do what he has to do to defend the nation even if the only two who agree with him are his wife and dog. He cannot run again for the Presidency, so his poll numbers are irrelevant.

All nations, according to the UN Charter and common sense, have the right to protect themselves, so if an enemy is building weapons that threaten another, directly or indirectly, the other has the right to say, "No you can't." If you aren't strong enough to prevent it, that is one situation. If you are strong enough to prevent it, and there is nothing to stop you, moral equivilence arguments are moot.

Advice? Do you think this situation would exist had Jimmy Carter done to Iran in 1980 what W did in Iraq? You can figure out my advice from that. The last major world conflict ended with nuclear weapons. The next one will start with them. Do we really want that? Or would we be better off with Bush's approach? Let's select the best time to attack Iran - far more productive exercise. Wink

All the best.

Tom
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your view is perfectly clear. It is not in my position to make an announcement on behalf of the Norwegian government or the UN but I would understand their policy as wishing to persist toward every means in terms of resolving the conflict in a diplomatic fashion before taking to millitary force.

Astrologically, as pointed out in my initial post, tension is on the build in this region in an intermediate term but has this conflict passed the point of no return? Surely not, and shouldn't astrology be put to use to try and resolve the situation?

Questions regarding millitary offences may be taken into consideration at some stage of exigency, in which case even the guy holding the straight flush would be advised against rushing in, i.e., while the Moon was void of course or Mars retrograde. But then Mars does not retrograde before the middle of November, so this state is not a consideration in the immediate or intermediate future.

Presently we are in the process of measuring up the situation. The Iranian policy does seem highly disturbing. Bush is in danger of loosing his blanco for Iran and if Bush's dog were to wag his tail at an unpretentious moment, Bush might get into a situation in Iraq that he doesn't have time to get out of. Bush may not stand for re-election but the republicans sure care. So does astrology offer any further clues as to what is in play?
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granny_skot



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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might I point to the upcoming Eclipses for your astrological pointer, such countries as are ruled by Virgo will be effected by the lunar eclipse, either of these virgo ruled, it is argued the US is. and the solar eclipse will strongly affect those with late pisces rule... may I also point out that Pluto, who is definitely a nuclear planet is square the solar eclipse...

okay just a thought, enjoy... Granny
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rex E. Bills' Rulership Book has the USA as mainly ruled by Gemini and Iran by Aries or Aquarius. I find no reference associating these nations with Virgo. Are you sure you got that one right?

Any configuration of the planets may be said to have an 'universal' signification (Morinus), but the configuration must in someway be related by longitude and latitude to have a local meaning. The upcoming eclipses do not appear to be hitting anything of regional cruciality.

I am quite sure that the threat of a nuclear conflict is not a matter of enjoyment but rather one of the greatest urgency, but I probably got you wrong on that one.
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granny_skot



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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with US is agreeing on when it is a country. the heart of the us identifies with 4 july 1776, however the declaration was actually only approved by congress and signed by John Hancock on that date the signing took place on August 2nd 1776. the treaty of Paris, in which England conceded the US was sepparate sovereign nation was signed in September of 1783, for which I have a time of 10:21am, but I dont have source for that, so it may be incorrect time. Then one could argue, last battles, or first recognition of US as independent nation by another country, or when the US ratified the Paris peace treaty, or ... it is not so well defined. Americans generally consider 4 July 1776 as the Birthdate, because the declaration of Independence pretty much expresses the heart of america, even if that expression means different things to different people.
(for instance you are talking a group that has in its constitution both the first and fourth ammendments, and when it comes to freedom of the press and right to privacy issues, um... am I the only person who sees this as contrary statements? oops off topic sorry about that. I've been gathering data currently on an excel spreadsheet, about 203K, if you want a peek, just let me know and I'll email it to you. presidential birth, death data and some key figures in politics and key dates in us history... one of my odd fascinations.)
So first you'd have to decide which date constitutes the birth of this country, and I'm not certain that has been established. Though I'm kinda leaning toward the paris peace treaty. it suits the odd concervative streak that runs through this country. and I do mean Odd! Oh yes and the Constitution was signed 17 September 1787, 11:29 am Philadelphia, PA
Virgo sun, yet again, Articles of Confederation were signed 1 March 1781 in philly again, no time that I can find. George WAshington was Inaugerated in April, now days its done in January... George washington was the first president under the constitution, Peyton Randolph was the First Continental Congress President and then the second Continental Congress , the first president of the of the United States in Congress assembled was Samuel Huntington. John Hanson was the First of these men to sign a document as the President of the United States (incidentally allegedly borrn april 13, but whether old style or new unknown.)
Cyrus Griffen was the last man to serve as President BEFORE the constitution took effect. this may be mroe than you want to know about US history, but again, if you are to determine a day that constitutes its birth, I think it is relevent.

Granny

Granny
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is really no need to send the spreadsheet. I never called the USA a country. That is not the problem. I simply objected to your reference of the USA and Iraq as being ruled by Virgo. I do not know of any such tradition in astrology so please regard my response as either a scholary objection or a simply enquiry regarding your source of knowledge.
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granny_skot



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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leery
dont worry, unless you requested it, I would never send you information, you never know what other peoples computers can handle, so sending unsolicited documents can cause problems!

I sent the former note for a couple of reasons, the first reason was in response to your statement "I cannot spot the astrological build-up in this region at present and Mercury retrograde in Pisces (water) makes me want to call his bluff. Or do we witness another erronous (?) decision by the Bush administration with the potential of plunging the President into new troubles? " I was suggesting that since you were already looking at an eclipse in reference to this thought process that this might be something to look at.

secondly, it was suggested on another thread that eclipses are crucial to countries ruled by sign of eclipse, and that person suggests iraq because mesopotamia was ruled by Virgo, Iraq is the same region, but one might consider that it is not really the same country...

and lastly because on antoher thread a while back Tom and I were discussing(vigorously) the possibility of US being Virgo in nature due to different things, such as constitution being signed in September.

Now asside from all this, I have a few other things to note. Smile

calling Bush's bluff... how about a different take on this thought, possibly changing tactics to maybe actually include some diplomacy? the Iranians seem more open to the possiblity at present, Please note the word, 'seem', frankly the completely different communications styles (and a strong inclination of both 'current' regimes, US and IRAN, to NOT see beyond the end of their noses, and then only their own version of such things as they do project,) makes it seem highly unlikely to me that without intervention from some sane negotiators who can possibly translate, not mere words, but ideas, that the only conclusion is violence between two morons... which seems an absolute Mercury retrograde scenario...

but, that is merely speculation on my part, okay possibly goaded by some things that strike me as weird about the eclipse.

key points in the lunar eclipse as calculated on astro.com it occures at approximately 6:16 pm on 3 march in Washington DC.
12 Pis 59 and 12 Virgo 59, any points here? well us elections are generally held at about 12 scorpio (the next election occurs at sun 12 scorpio 47) and the sun for both W and the Declaration of Independence is 13 Cancer, Bush's Mars is at 9 Virgo, and paris Peace Treaty 10 Virgo sun, articles of Confederation 11 Pisces sun, the IC of the Constitutional chart (17 Sep 1787, Philadelphia pa at 11:29) is at 17 Pisces, the 5th house of the Paris Peace treaty is at 18 Pisces (allegedly) and the Pof of the Lunar eclipse is at 16 pisces in DC chart. on the Dsc no less.

and the interesting upcoming solar eclipse

the solar eclipse occurs in DC at about 9:43pm at 28 Pisces 07 approx.
mercury for paris peace treaty is 24 Virgo, sun for signing of Constitution is 24 Virgo, Neptune of Declaration chart is 22 Virgo, 3rd house cusp for Bush 22 Virgo, 9th 22 Pisces, his saturn at 26 Cancer is Trine the eclipse, which could bode ill for him I think.

The part of fortune for the Solar eclipse chart in DC is aligned with the ASC at 10 Virgo 03. this is conj the 10 Vir 43 Sun of the Paris Peace Treaty, 11 Virgo 36 mercury of the constitutional mercury (if you look at those charts the sun of one and the mercury of the other are pretty much reversed at near 10 Vir and 24 Virgo, so major points I believe)

Whenever I see Virgo deliniations in connection with USA I think that it shows a Rule of Law prevailing. when its strongly aligned with the constitution it seems to show a strong sense of justice. but that is something I'm still looking over. I dont know what would be the best chart to use for Iraq, oen might argue the bagdad chart, one might argue some later date, but either way I'm not certain that we have a great date for them at the moment. Iran, again what chart would we use? downfall of previous government? election of current administration? what is the current leaders birthdata?

having said all that I think that the eclipse data followed by the Ingress data, shows a crises followed by good things. hope that wasn't too convoluted.

Granny
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madam,
You and Tom had discussed whether the USA was ruled by Virgo?
I am sorry, but you are loosing me at present. Do you want to relate the lunar eclipse of March 3. to a conflict with Mesopotamia, a Virgoean rulership of the US or with the up-coming US election?

You say that the part of fortune of the solar eclipse being conjunct the ascendant of Washington DC. I solemnly fear that things are moving a bit to fast here and it will soon be impossible to focus on the issue at hand. When will the part of fortune of the new moon ever lie on anything but the ascendant?

However, I do believe that a turn towards diplomacy is the call of the initial posting. The eclipse charts have been examined and the first eclipse chart that bears a local significance and shows a build up over Iran is the lunar eclipse of Aug 28. 2007. Then Pluto will be on the local Asc of Iran. The conflict is complicated and not likely to be quickly resolved and go away in the short term. I do think we agree upon that!
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Christina



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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Andrew,

Quote:
In my opinion, the Astro*Cartography chart of the Lunar eclipse Aug 28. 2007 is the first clear warning of an unleashing conflict in Iran as Pluto will be on the Ascendant line close to Tehran. Check the chart here: http://www.astronor.com/LE070828.GIF


Interesting chart that you have posted. It seems the Pluto/Asc and Mars/Des lines are on either side of Terhan and Bagdad. And on the other side of the world, the Moon/Des line appears to go through Washington DC – it is, afterall, a lunar eclipse.

I have some thoughts on this, but first I am looking for confirmation on other charts. Perchance, do you, or anyone, have a chart for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s swearing in as president of Iran. The best I can find is Aug. 5, 2005, unconfirmed, plus no time. In addition, I have his birthday as October 28, 1956, Garmsar, Iran, unconfirmed, no time.

Christina
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granny_skot



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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew
you appear to be reading partial sentences. please re-read.
thanks,
granny.
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