skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Mercury retrograde calls Bush bluff?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane Astrology & World Events
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4673
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did read your post and unfortunately either failed to understand your astrology or thought it was getting into a muddle.

[quote]: Might I point to the upcoming Eclipses for your astrological pointer, such countries as are ruled by Virgo will be effected by the lunar eclipse, either of these virgo ruled, it is argued the US is.

[quote]: The problem with US is agreeing on when it is a country.

[quote]: suggests iraq because mesopotamia was ruled by Virgo, Iraq is the same region, but one might consider that it is not really the same country...

[quote]: ... and the Pof of the Lunar eclipse is at 16 pisces in DC chart. on the Dsc no less.

[quote]: The part of fortune for the Solar eclipse chart in DC is aligned with the ASC at 10 Virgo 03.

[quote]: key points in the lunar eclipse as calculated on astro.com it occures at approximately 6:16 pm on 3 march in Washington DC. 12 Pis 59 and 12 Virgo 59, any points here? well us elections are generally held at about 12 scorpio (the next election occurs at sun 12 scorpio 47) and the sun for both W and the Declaration of Independence is 13 Cancer, Bush's Mars is at 9 Virgo, and paris Peace Treaty 10 Virgo sun, articles of Confederation 11 Pisces sun, the IC of the Constitutional chart (17 Sep 1787, Philadelphia pa at 11:29) is at 17 Pisces, the 5th house of the Paris Peace treaty is at 18 Pisces (allegedly) and the Pof of the Lunar eclipse is at 16 pisces in DC chart. on the Dsc no less.

Will the relationship between the lunar eclipse of March 3 and the US elections which you say occur at about 12 Scorpio bear any meaning for the nuculear or millitary conflict between the US, or the UN, and Iran? And how do you understand the 5th house of the alleged Paris Peace treaty?

Unfortunately, my response may been defensive because your post left me with more questions than answers.

Andrew
_________________
http://www.astronor.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Deb
Administrator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be that Mercury retrograde thing Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4673
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite on the side of what should be the point of focus in this discussion, I would like to add some support to Granny's idea, or rather what appears to be a previous discussion between Tom and Granny, relating to a possible connection between the USA and Virgo.

My collaberating view comes from my work and thoughts on the discovery charts of the Outer Planets http://www.astronor.com/outerplanets.htm In every case where a new planet was discovered, in each case the sign which is associated with the planet's rulership is found on the Meridian of the discovery chart, mainly meaning the Midheaven. The exception is Uranus (which is upside down) and where Aquarius is found on the IC.

THE SIGN ASSOCIATED WITH THE PLANET'S EXALTATION IS IN EVERY INSTANCE LOCATED ON THE ASCENDANT. The exaltation, according to Lilly, is the condition of a planet's highest competitiveness. [ This would also be one of my reasons for why the winner of a competition could be judged from the Ascendant ]

I have done some basic research and work on the astrology of Norwegian towns, and while it seems apparant that Oslo is ruled by Cancer, Taurus may be the sign of the City's exaltation. This would assume an astrology of Cancer on the IC, with Taurus rising. I am prepared to discuss this point - but I have notes in my papers from years back.

Assuming the USA is ruled by Gemini, it is quite possible to assume an astrology which shows Gemini on the Midheaven, thus representing the natural sign of the USA - and with Virgo on the Ascendant. Technology and science could be recognized as a point of exaltation in terms of the USA, yes.

Now associating signs with nations i.e. by rulership, is not quite the same thing as reading a national chart, i.e. a chart of Constitution or Independence. Although, if you do look at the chart of Norway http://www.astronor.com/norway.htm (Independence from Sweden 1905), this chart does show Scorpio on the IC (Scorpio signifying Norway) and has Virgo on the Ascendant.

Now this is a bit complicated, but I think it is messy and incorrect to take an eclipse occurring within any sign and identify a nation through the sign of this nations exaltation, however, I do believe that the occurance of such an eclipse in the sign of a nations exaltation could cause detriment to that nation.

But primarily I believe it is important to relate the occurance of an eclipse to a place through calcultions of latitude and longitude. This would be what I consider to be the basic makings of a science.

I do think that this could be a topic of discussion or observation and prove quite fruitful - but I do think it is better to move the subject to a different post.

Andrew
_________________
http://www.astronor.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I see part of the problem! I forgot to include a questionmark in this part
.
"Might I point to the upcoming Eclipses for your astrological pointer, such countries as are ruled by Virgo will be effected by the lunar eclipse, either of these virgo ruled....?????.... it is argued the US is." making it read badly.

The PoF part, really needs to be read with the adjoining sentence
"this is conj the 10 Vir 43 Sun of the Paris Peace Treaty, 11 Virgo 36 mercury of the constitutional mercury (if you look at those charts the sun of one and the mercury of the other are pretty much reversed at near 10 Vir and 24 Virgo, so major points I believe) " and not by itself.

and yes, I was trying to note all mercury (Virgo) all over the place, though I am not certain what chart to use for Iraq any longer. original Baghdad chart certainly has lots of connections to the US charts, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is the correct chart at the moment?? needs some thought???

Sorry about that, I kept re-reading it and wondering what I was not being clear about ... definitely sounds like I"m having a mercury retrograde. Wink Granny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Christina



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 82
Location: usa

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christina,

Very clearly discussed, I like your writing style.

I keep thinking that the solar eclipse just prior to the Ingress, represents a crises followed with some good solution, the ingress.

Just wondering if you have an opinion on that?
(and if so what it might be)
Granny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Christina



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 82
Location: usa

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Granny,

Thank you Smile

Quote:
I keep thinking that the solar eclipse just prior to the Ingress, represents a crises followed with some good solution, the ingress.

Just wondering if you have an opinion on that?
(and if so what it might be)


Because you study mundane charts you know how chart heavy it can be! Which is to say I have not looked closely at the solar eclipse chart yet, but I plan to. However I have looked at the eclipse path and it is notable that eastern Iran will have partial solar eclipse (outskirts away from greatest eclipse which will be over northeastern and central Russia and most of Alaska).

Taking just the ingress chart, the crisis seems to be clearly represented by the tight hostile Mars-Saturn opposition. It is double applying because Saturn is rx, signifying something unexpected. If a crisis is to be followed by something good (as you suggest) it would be from the Jupiter trine (which is part of a grand trine including the Moon). The degree sequence and orbs make sense regards timing:

- Mars 17Aquarius
- Saturn 18LeoRx
- Jupiter 19Sagittarius

The astrology supports your proposal. Let’s hope you are correct!
Aries Ingress: March 20, 2007 7:07 PM EST, Washington DC, USA (note to anyone trying this: daylight savings in USA is hinky this year, be careful) and March 21, 2007, 3:37 AM, Tehran, Iran

Offhand, I can only recall two other solar ingress charts with a Mars-Saturn opposition and a Jupiter trine (to opposition). One was March 1776 involving USA (then colonies) and Great Britain and the opposition was spot on an angle for both ingress locations (London and Philadelphia). The Jupiter trine did not guarantee a successful diplomatic solution, only that, under hostile conditions, diplomacy was attempted. The 5 year Revolutionary War followed – nasty business. Perhaps we can draw from this example. The 1776 Mars-Saturn in Aries-Libra opposition had strong essential dignity (strong for conflict and war). In contrast, trining Jupiter was in detriment (diplomacy weak in Gemini). Diplomacy failed. The 1776 ingress (like 2007) was also a grand trine ingress (Venus was in Aquarius, Saturn Libra), also with Sun-Moon in Aries.

1776 ingress: Mar 19, 1776, 7:36 PM, Philadelphia, PA, USA and
March 20, 1776, 00:36 AM, London, England

Fast forward again to this year’s 2007 Aries ingress chart. The opposition is angular but not exactly on an angle (Tehran ingress) and Jupiter has greater essential dignity in Sagittarius. Diplomacy has strength (maybe because Sag is a martial sign!). I do not see the USA backing down or diplomatically appeasing. Political horse sense would say Iran wants something tangible in exchange. The Tehran ingress has Lord 8 in 1st (money from other countries/agencies going to Iran) sextile Venus with reception. This might indicate continued financing to Iran by the IAEA, which would otherwise be withdrawn if uranium enrichment continued. That would be a diplomatic success – for now. The other ingress charts would need to be examined, too.

Christina
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4673
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Link to eclipse map:
http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEplot/SEplot2001/SE2007Mar19P.GIF

Andrew
_________________
http://www.astronor.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Christina



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 82
Location: usa

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concern over the possibility of violent conflict with Iran continues to mount. In an earlier post regarding Iran’s Aries ingress chart, I mentioned to expect something unexpected from the hostile Mars Saturn opp because it was double applying w/i one degree. On Mar 23, barely 11 hours after the Mars-Saturn opp perfected, Iran surprised the world when it captured 15 British Navy personnel.

What looks like a possible hostage crisis can be compared to 1979 when Iran took more than 60 hostages at the American Embassy in Tehran. The Aries ingress in 1979 also harbored a Mars-Saturn opposition. Both the USA 1979 and Britain 2007 ingress charts have striking similarities. The Mars-Saturn opp’s are both in the 3rd to 9th houses, Saturn is the highest planet in the chart, Sun partile conj IC and Sagittarius Asc. In addition, the event chart (of March 23rd capture) has Saturn-Mars in 3rd to 9th. Neptune is prominent in all 3 charts.

The capture chart has Asc 25 Gemini using Basra as nearby port. Planetary hour is Jupiter signifying that British Navy personnel will be released in a short time (provided the reported 10:30 Gulf time was accurate within approx 30min on either side - hopefully so!). The Moon (water professions, Navy) in the 12th (captivity) signify’s the captives. Moon is unafflicted except for a square to Mercury conj MC in Pisces (naval conflict regarding the borderline) with reception. It is conj Pleiades (something to cry about?).

NTL, per the ingress, the overall conflict with Iran on wmd’s appears to be a long one. The Mars-Saturn opp is in fixed signs which generally indicates the longer time unit. The Jupiter trine remains hopeful but less so because it is at the bendings and square Uranus.

Andrew started this thread with a Solar Age Point analysis of President Bush’s chart:

Quote:
However, when the Autumn of 2007 arrives Bush's SAP will be square Neptune. This aspect has the potential of totally incapacitating him and he will have to find good partners of collaberation as not to go into complete disolvement. I am sure this will be put into a meaningful context as the election approaches.

In my opinion, the Astro*Cartography chart of the Lunar eclipse Aug 28. 2007 is the first clear warning of an unleashing conflict in Iran as Pluto will be on the Ascendant line close to Tehran. Check the chart here: http://www.astronor.com/LE070828.GIF


I remain unfamiliar with the SAP technique though it sounds intriguing. My interest is to see if other mundane techniques reflect similar conclusions per Andrew’s proposed timeline. Ingress and eclipse charts are one method. One manner of judging timing is to watch transits to ingress and eclipse chart sensitive points and/or to progress ingress planets by a timing unit such as a degree a week. This year the eclipse and ingress charts are only 2 days apart which could add intensity to subsequent aspects as they happen in quick succession (eclipse was partially visible in western Iran).

Since Mars is center stage this year it becomes a probable trigger. I will skip ahead to the Aug 28 eclipse, even though Mars makes some very tense aspects before then (especially mid thru end July plus in Aug from prog iMoon). Almost all the eclipse planets make close hostile aspects to the ingress planets. The eclipse conjuncts ingress Mercury (detrimented & applying to conj with iUranus & iNN); Mercury is conjunct iSN and opp iUranus; Mars is applying by square to iUran/NN and will soon opp iJupiter (which is at bendings and square iUranus); VenusRx is conj iSaturn triggering opp to iMars/Neptune; Saturn is combust & conjunct Regulus having recently opposed USA Sibley Moon and is applying to opp iMercury.

Mercury’s prominence suggests (what we already fear) trouble from aviation, water (Navy) or land routes. Andrew said “unleashing conflict”, which seems a very appropriate description of Mars triggering the Jupiter-Uranus/Nodal square. Provided my approach has any merit! I would be interested to hear other views.

Looking at the next two ingresses we see:
- USA Cancer ingress has Mars in 7th square Merc partile conj MC, at best continued rumors of war, or could be worse or this could be escalating problems in Iraq.
- USA Libra ingress looks even more warlike because Mars is in 10th square a luminary (Sun in 1st) and opp Pluto (4th) = yet another hostile face off – and/or an important dignitary could die.
- UK Libra ingress also has some cause for concern. Mars (LoA, L6) in 8th square Sun suggests death of soldiers; peregrine Saturn conj MC.
- Iran Libra ingress has Mars opp Pluto on the Asc-Des angle square Sun in 9th; Merc conj MC.

Interesting that Mars continues to be angular in the Aries-Cancer-Libra ingresses for either USA or Iran, except that for the Libra ingress both countries have Mars angular simultaneously and afflicting Sun-Pluto (Andrew did say autumn).

I would not have looked in this direction had not Andrew spied the August eclipse Pluto line through Tehran – Andrew, good catch. The Libra ingresses especially appear to corroborate.

Christina
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CJ



Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 38

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have done some basic research and work on the astrology of Norwegian towns, and while it seems apparant that Oslo is ruled by Cancer, Taurus may be the sign of the City's exaltation. This would assume an astrology of Cancer on the IC, with Taurus rising. I am prepared to discuss this point - but I have notes in my papers from years back.


In my research of towns, corporations and organizations (or any group) the ascendant is always the sign of the nation they are born in (with the exception of some major subgroups like New York, London etc.). For Norway the nation sign would in my view be Libra (see my page at www.geocities.com/cjjohans).


Quote:
Assuming the USA is ruled by Gemini, it is quite possible to assume an astrology which shows Gemini on the Midheaven, thus representing the natural sign of the USA - and with Virgo on the Ascendant. Technology and science could be recognized as a point of exaltation in terms of the USA, yes.


Virgo ruled technology until Uranus was discovered, I would not say it does so any longer. As for science now there are grand theories instead nitpicking observations.


Quote:
But primarily I believe it is important to relate the occurance of an eclipse to a place through calcultions of latitude and longitude. This would be what I consider to be the basic makings of a science.


I do have that approach as well. I fix the eclipse at a certain place on Earth and see how the planets appear elsewhere at that moment. Without fixing it on a location it will occur at different times across the Earth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4673
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scandinavia as Libra is an idea that has to be thought through. As in contrast to Europe, ruled by Pisces, Libra is the sign of its antiscia.

However, regarding the individual countries I would have to stick with tradition - alotting Aries to Denmark, Aquarius to Sweden and Scorpio to Norway. Libra as the signifer of Norway does not stand a chance. That would be my opinion.

Regards
Andrew
_________________
http://www.astronor.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
CJ



Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 38

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Andrew J. Bevan"]
However, regarding the individual countries I would have to stick with tradition - alotting Aries to Denmark, Aquarius to Sweden and Scorpio to Norway. Libra as the signifer of Norway does not stand a chance. That would be my opinion.

Regards
Andrew[/quote]

In my approach they are not separate on a national level like Britain or France (nation is not the same as country, there is also a sense of regional consciousness that is stronger than elsewhere. They also insist on trying to understand each other in the native languages).

And Denmark does have Mars in the ascendant while one of my candidates for Norway is Sun in Scorpio (and another Sun dispositor in Aries). Sweden has Jupiter (esoteric ruler of Aquarius) and Uranus in the ascendant.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4673
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norway has been in union with Denmark and Sweden and their languages are fairly similar. The Norwegians have for a long time had a 2nd language called 'New Norwegian' which is closer to the national dialect. The prime purpose of 'New Norwegian' is to maintain national identity, moving away from and distinguishing themselves from the Swedish and Danish languages.

Norwegians have strong traditions of marking their national day, which is May 17., and I am sure any suggestion that they are not seperate from Denmark and Sweden on a national level will not be taken favourably. Denmark and Sweden are members of the EU. Norway is not - and the Norwegian Prime Minister recently announced the EU membership would not be an issue in the foreseeable future.

Travel through Scandinavia and you will notice that Norway is very much different from Denmark and Sweden in many ways, I am sure.
_________________
http://www.astronor.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
CJ



Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 38

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Norway has been in union with Denmark and Sweden and their languages are fairly similar. The Norwegians have for a long time had a 2nd language called 'New Norwegian' which is closer to the national dialect. The prime purpose of 'New Norwegian' is to maintain national identity, moving away from and distinguishing themselves from the Swedish and Danish languages.


Some suspicion towards the concept of union of Norway based on the history of the past 600 years does not prove that they are not one nation.

Quote:

Norwegians have strong traditions of marking their national day, which is May 17., and I am sure any suggestion that they are not seperate from Denmark and Sweden on a national level will not be taken favourably.


That is not relevant to me, since "nation" is not an cultural concept but a geographical one for me. And I have found what people of a country believe is their birthday as a norm is wrong.

Quote:

Denmark and Sweden are members of the EU. Norway is not - and the Norwegian Prime Minister recently announced the EU membership would not be an issue in the foreseeable future.


However thay have had a common Nordic Council (which still is active) and passport-free travel long before the EU.

Quote:

Travel through Scandinavia and you will notice that Norway is very much different from Denmark and Sweden in many ways, I am sure.

[/quote]

I have visited all countries, and the similiarities are stronger between them when compared to other countries.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4673
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I can't see any point in getting into an argument over this. I'm all open for new discoveries. It you can give substance to your theories and put it to some good practical use, I wish you good luck with your research.
_________________
http://www.astronor.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane Astrology & World Events All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated