Lord of the Geniture 1 by Tom I wanted to get this off the Mystery Chart thread and on to its own because I think it is important, but the mystery chart thread is not the place for the discussion. To clarify: I thought you missed it because you seemed to be defending your position after I said there is more than one way or one technique to determine the Lord of the Geniture. The fact that Firmicus does it one way Gadbury, a second, and Lilly a third is a fairly common occurance in traditional astrology. The main point is that we need to do something with it after we determine it. Perhaps Firmicus has something different in mind for the LoG than Lilly et al and therefore his method is perfectly logical for what it is he wants to do. On the other hand I'm responding to my understanding of the LoG and from that perspective (and again I know it isn't the only one) Firmicus' method makes no sense. To use the example of Patton's chart and leave the mystery chart on the mystery thread, Saturn would not make a good LoG although I would hardly discount its influence. The LoG is not the only influential planet in the chart. Let's start at the beginning. The Lord of the geniture (my way) is the strongest planet in the chart that can act. If we have a chart that has, say, Mars in Aries in the 12th and Venus in Capricorn in the 10th (triplicity), and no other strong planets, then we would look to Venus as the LoG rather than Mars besides Mars having more essential dignity. Mars' ability to act in the 12th is hampered by his accidental debility. On the other hand if Mars in Aries in the 12th is the only strong planet, then we would use it. We do not want to nominate a weak planet as LoG because we want to work with it and working with our strengths is easier and more productive than wallowing in our weaknesses or doing double work to overcome them. If client comes to us and wants to know what to do with his life, looking at the LoG is a good place to begin work. I would not have liked to begun with Saturn in Cancer a weak, and therefore dangerous, malefic. However, if we define that Saturn as a taskmaster, we could argue that all field generals are taskmasters and with good reason. Patton for example had very low casualty rates despite routinely heading into battle against larger forces. I'm sure most, if not all, soldiers would prefer to follow a harsh taskmaster that will get them home alive rather than a Mr. Personality who is likely to get them killed. This would be an example of turning the potential malice of that Saturn into something positive. The fact that Firmicus wants to use that Saturn as LoG (I've read him here and there, I'm not exceptionally knowledgeable about him) makes me suspect he has something entirely different mind for the LoG. He may be selecting the planet that looks to be most influential for good or for ill. This is fairly typical of Greek and many medieval astrologers. This is why I asked what we would do with Mars in Aquarius as LoG in the mystery chart? Mars plays a role in the life, but I believe there is a far more important planet to consider for this "position." A mutual reception between two weak planets is not too helpful. I think it was Robert Zoller who called it, "Two drunks helping each other home. It is some help but not much." I am not at all clear on how Mars in Aquarius is helped by Saturn in Scorpio and vice versa. Einstein's Saturn in Aries, however, is clearly helped by his Mars in Capricorn. So it's not so much that I disagree with Firmicus method as I am unsure of what he is trying to do, and I believe he is doing something different than I'm doing despite our using the identical phrase. We have to keep in mind that our oldest texts are often translations of translations and then the translated phrases often change meaning over the centuries and don't get me started on Noel Tyl and "peregrine." I'm looking for a strong positive influence that can be used by the native to improve his life. What's Firmicus doing? If you know or can find out, then it would be a perfectly valid traditional technique to take and apply to Mystery chart. No 11. We would all benefit. Tom Quote Mon May 14, 2007 9:38 pm
2 by SaturnReturn To clarify: I thought you missed it because you seemed to be defending your position after I said there is more than one way or one technique to determine the Lord of the Geniture. Ah, no. Sorry, I realize I was kind of defensive. I thought you were being condescending. No hard feelings. I need to look through Mathesis again and try and get to the bottom of what Maternus thinks about the LoG. Right this second I don't have the time but I will invest some into it later and present my findings. I'm interested in seeing if this technique of progressed Moon sign for LoG will produce any kind of visible result. More later. Quote Tue May 15, 2007 1:18 pm