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A test horary, opinions welcome!

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Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 36

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:17 am    Post subject: A test horary, opinions welcome! Reply with quote

The question is: Will this be a permanent relationship? (As inspired by one of the sample horaries in this website)

In interpreting this chart I find the answers mixed.
The querent is represented by Jupiter retrograde in the 9th house. Jupiter is in it's own sign, showing the querent is more interested in herself, and whatever the 9th house represents.

The quesited is indicated by Mercury in Cancer in the 4th house. Mercury is in the sign of Jupiter's exaltation. this shows the quesited's interest in the querent. The 4th house is angular; the 9th isn't.

However, Mercury is going to inconjunct Jupiter from the 4th and 9th houses. I am not sure if Mercury in the 4th means the quesited wants to set up a home, or feels at home. While the querent prefers travel and philosophy.

Mars is also taken as another singificator for the quesited. Mars in the first house shows the quesited's interest. However, some notes mention that Mars in the 1st is malefic and not generally good.

The sun, the quesited is in the turned 9th house.
Venus, the querent is in the 5th house, signifying romantic interest.

Moon, signifying the querent, is tightly conjunct the ascendant. Is this a sign of self-absorption?

Uranus is also conjunct the ASC, and in some notes this mentions alot of instability and trouble concerning the querent and the situation.

Looking at debilities and dignities, Venus is in the exaltation of the sun.
Mercury is in Jupiter's exaltation.
however, Mars is in it's own sign, Aries, and is strong in the first house. Interestingly, Mars is in Venus' detriment. What's more, the moon is in Mercury's detriment and fall. Also, the sun in Gemini is in Jupiter's detriment.

This gives very conflicting signals.

Venus is going to trine mars, however.
Also, not included in the chart is POF, which is conjunct sun by 1 degrees. Does this actually give strength to the sun?

There is a pattern I noticed: Mars is in the sun's exaltation, sun is in mercury's house. This shows the quesited might be pretty strong in his opinion.

The moon is also about to square Pluto.

I can't come to a proper conclusion with his horary.

Perhaps the inconjunct between the main significators mean that alot of adjustments need to be made.

Any opinions/criticisms or add-ons welcome!

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Joined: 10 Jun 2006
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi spicav,

I am wondering whether this 'test horary' is an actual, real situation, or a hypothetical one? If it is a real situation, it is most helpful to know what the background of the question is: are the querent/quesited in a relationship of some description already; have they only just met; do they know one another at all, etc. Without the background of a situation there is no point in doing a chart for it, as the answer is likely to be way off.

If it is a hypothetical 'test question', the same thing applies: there needs to be a 'hypothetical situation' where the hypothetical querent asks the hypothetical question. In horary, *context is everything*. No context, no question, no answer.

However, let's assume for the sake of practice, that this is a situation where the querent and quesited are already in a relationship of some sort, and the querent asks this question.

The wonder of horary is that most answers are very easy to find. The answer is not mixed at all in this chart; it is very clear.

1. The Moon is void of course. While the Moon in Pisces has the ability to 'perform somewhat' while VOC, we look to the relationship of the Moon to the significators of the querent and quesited.

2. The moon has separated from a square to Jupiter, the querent. The moon has also separated from the quesited, and does not collect or translate their lights from one to the other.

3. There is no relationship between the querent and quesited in terms of aspect. In horary we do not use 'minor' aspects such as inconjunct, quintiles, sesquiquadrates, etc. Only conjunction, trine, sextile, square, and opposition. Always. Ignore the houses the players are in for the time being. The houses may add some details to the reading, but the 'meat and potatoes' of it will be found in the aspects, or lack thereof.

4. There is minor reception between the 'players': the Moon, Mercury, and Jupiter. The Moon is in Jupiter's sign and face, and Mercury's terms. The querent has a vested interest in the question, and is the 'mover and shaker' in the situation. Jupiter is in Mercury's face, a very minor dignity. Mercury is in the Moon's rulership, Jupiter's exaltation, and Jupiter's terms. The Mercury person is way more keen on the relationship (and on Jupiter) than vice-versa; Jupiter is in the sign of Mercury's detriment. If we were to take this literally, Mercury is very interested in Jupiter to the point of being unrealistic about it (exaltation), but Jupiter is only mildly interested in Mercury (face) and may even dislike him (detriment). The Jupiter person thinks more of herself (Moon/Jupiter receptions) than of the quesited (face only). Here we have mutal interest or involvement in one another, and in the relationship, but not especially equal on the part of both players.

5. So, in the context of a hypothetical situation where the querent and quesited are already in a relationship, and the querent asks, 'Will this be a permanent relationship', the answer is very likely to be 'No way'. That does not mean that the people will not have a relationship (this is shown by the receptions), but the lack of applying aspects, collection, translation, etc. means that the relationship will not evolve beyond its current status, if at all. The void of course moon indicates that nothing in the situation is likely to change.

PS. I would add that, although the outer planets shouldn't be considered in the initial reading of a chart, if they are noticeably placed on an angle or conjunct one of the significators, they should be included. Trines, etc. shouldn't be counted unless that outer planet is on an angle. If they are just floating around in the middle of the chart, ignore them. Uranus on the 1st angle, with the Moon only just separated from it, could possibly signify a recent split, disruption, separation, etc. With the Moon there, it might be considered that the reason for asking the question in the first place is because of this Uranian thing. With Uranus on the first, it is even more likely that the querent was the instigator.

There is also no real need to involve 'secondary significators' such as the Sun and Venus (for man and woman) if the relationship is shown clearly enough by the primary significators. All this does is add confusion to a reading, until you really know your stuff! If the question is a good one, all there is to see will be shown by the relevant main significators and the Moon. Wink

Hope this helps.
GH Smile
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Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Gunhilde post regarding context/background/analysisf

Angles are common (mutable)--a positive answer requires fixed angles.

Uranus right on ascendant--does not favour permanency--

The significators are in cardinal or mutable houses.

Moon is VOC but is in Pisces.

Mercury and Jupiter are not n aspect and there is no collection or translation.

This is not a permamanent relationship. Yes, i would more favour 4-9 conflict.

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Joined: 09 May 2007
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks both for replying.

Gunhilde, your analysis is spot on.Thumbs up

However, maybe the answer is negative because the question is slightly flawed.

"Permanence" is an absolute term, perhaps even transcending death.
Maybe that's why it's a 'no'.

The recent disruption indicated by uranus is spot on too.

One interesting thing: The quesited is actually going overseas soon ( a 9th house matter), while the querent remains at home (4th house). The strange thing is that jupiter is in the 9th, while mercury is in the 4th.
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