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Howard Dean Democrat Nominee?

 
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Tom
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:59 pm    Post subject: Howard Dean Democrat Nominee? Reply with quote

Hello,

I thought this exercise might develop a little interest. I have possible chart data for Howard Dean, as of this writing, the most likely challenger to George W. Bush in the next US Presidential election. CAUTION: This is listed as DD (Dirty Data) by Lois Rodden's group. So just use the chart as though it were accurate with the understanding that should we discover better data all bets are off.

Any and all techniques welcome, but let's keep it to astrology and at least try to be objective. This guy and his likely opponent are neither Satan nor Savior, despite what proponents say about their candidate and his oponent.

Let's focus on the following:

1) Basic character analysis
2) Will he be the nominee?
3) If not, might he start a third party?
4) Can he win? Why (astrological reasons only)?
5) If he can't win, what will be his undoing? (This may not be possible to see at this point)

Answer any, all, or other questions that the chart brings to mind, and maybe Deb could post it.

Howard Dean
Nov 17, 1948 (an excellent year by the way)
7:21 PM EST
New York, NY
40 N 42' 51
74 W 00' 23"
8 Cancer 59 rises

I used Placidus cusps in some preliminary work. Please cite your house system.

Enjoy

Tom
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Deb
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just enjoying that the forum has gone a little quite because it’s giving me chance to catch up with some work. I can assure you anything I say will not be prejudiced by personal opinion, because I haven’t heard of this man. Confused Is Dean the democrat candidate or just looking like he will be? Tell you what, I’ll try and educate myself a little on your politics before saying anymore.


Deans chart is according to Placidus, I thought I’d better include Bush’s chart as well.



I hope the leadership doesn't change, but only because I'm familiar with Bush's chart Smile

Just as a side note on British leadership matters, political commentators are speculating that mid-January will be a crisis period for Blair – the issues he will be dealing with at that time are ones that will make or break his long term security as Prime Minister. In January Saturn will be exact by transit over the midheaven of the UK national chart whilst in opposition to the Sun. I mentioned this in October as looking threatening to leadership issues and it will be interesting to see how this develops.
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Tom
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb,

Howard Dean is the former Governor of Vermont and is leading in the public opinion polls over 8 other Democrats only a few of whom have any real chance of getting the nomination. Given the nature of politics this could change before I finish typing.

The system, as confusing as it is, runs roughly this way. Beginning in January 2004 several states will hold primary elections. Now this varies a bit from state to state so hold these thoughts as general not hard and fast rules. On election day the voters will vote for the candidate they favor and in some states all of the state delegates to the party convention that takes place during the summer of 2004 will be pledged to vote for that candiate on the first ballot. What usually happens is this: the candidate that wins the early primaries gains momentum, and money, and secures enough pledged delegates to guarantee his selection on the first ballot. I don't know if either party has had a second ballot in my lifetime.

For the record the Republican party works pretty much the same way. However, with an incumbent President the primaries are simply a formality. (Not always though: Ronald Reagan mounted a campaign against then President Gerald Ford in 1976).

Right now, in the public opinion polls Dean looks like he will win the early primaries. He is clearly the front runner, and in the way these things usually work, it will hold. What makes Dean more interesting from an observer's viewpoint is that he is a true "outsider." He raised money, not through conventional party methods but via the internet. As such, he is beholding to no one in the party. This makes him dangerous to those who are in control of the party since, even if he were to run against GW Bush and lose, he would be the de facto leader of the Democrat Party and he would owe no one. So there is lots of "behind the scenes stuff within the party that makes this more than the routine selection of a party stalwart. Notice none of this has anything to do with issues that concern many of us. You can't have everything.

Politicans coming out of nowhere to dominate the Democrat Party are not unknown. Only serious aficianados of politics ever heard of Bill Clinton when he made his run for the White House. So Dean's nomination, should it occur will have profound effects on the Democrats whether he wins or not. There is a chart for the founding of the Democrat Party, but I don't have the data. They trace their lineage to Thomas Jefferson who was the leader of the Democratic-Republicans who became the Democrat Party: don't ask

On a personal note: this is when I miss my father the most -- he loved political intrigue.

Tom
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Deb
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

om, do you have the dates for the ballots and the election?
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Sue



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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I noticed the other day when looking at this is that Howard Dean has a couple of eclipses influencing his natal chart during this period. On 16th May this year, the lunar eclipse was conjunct his natal Sun. On 28th October 2004, only 4 days before the election on November 2nd, the lunar eclipse will conjunct his North Node to within 7 minutes. Bush doesn't have any. Bush will be experiencing his Saturn return around June 2004. It might be difficult for him around this time. Dean has transiting Saturn trine his Sun in late 2004 suggesting that he will work hard to achieve his goals. The North Node of the election chart will be conjunct Dean’s progressed North Node. On the day of the election, transiting Pluto will be exact on Bush’s South Node. Bush’s progressed Uranus will be on his progressed Midheaven. This can suggest sudden changes in the way he is perceived in the eyes of others. His professional standing might alter significantly. These are just the things I remember at the moment. And lets not forget that the progressed Sun of the US chart enters Pisces on the day of the election. Looks like it could be an interesting election and not the foregone conclusion that some commentators are predicting.
Of course we don't know who will be running against Bush yet but it seems likely that Dean will be the Democratic candidate given the recent endorsement by Al Gore. From what I remember of him, he has a tendency to be a little rash with some of his statements, perhaps from Mars applying to a conjunction of Jupiter. He has also been seen as too liberal by many even in his own party for his opposition to the Iraq war and his support of gay marriages. If I remember correctly, he was initially opposed to gay marriages but was persuaded to reconsider due to his daughter being gay. Having Jupiter opposing Uranus will perhaps give him a wilingness to speak out for the less conventional aspects of life. He will not be one to remain stuck with conventional attitudes and will often seek freedom from restrictions. An unaspected Sun can bring a strong sense of purpose that will not be modified by other considerations. This is only brief but I will look closely at his chart and get back to you on it.
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Tom
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Sue,

I have some things I've written that need to be edited a bit before I post later on, but there is one thing I'd like to comment on and that is this idea that stressful transits are an indication of loss of an election. I would think it is just the opposite. There may be more stressful jobs than that of President of the US, but there aren't many. One year after his inauguration which was only four months after 9/11 G.W. Bush looked like he aged 10 years. His hair was thinner and more gray and face more haggard. The Saturn return during the election year in general most likely indicates no more than continued stress and responsibility, which could be personal or public or both. We tend to forget our public figures have personal lives. The idea that easy aspects indicate victory implies someone is winning a popularity contest and has no more responsibility than kissing the popularity queen rather than being a world leader. To me it indicates the candidate who is going to be playing golf, not exercising authority in a stress filled world. Besides, the second Saturn return occurs about the same time as a Jupiter return and W is no exception.

I am not stating that stressful aspects indicate victory. I'm just not persuaded that it indicates defeat. More later on.

Tom
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Tom
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howard Dean

Part 1 Dean & Ptolemy

[The quote from Tetrabiblos that follows is taken from the Robbins translation pages 355-56. The quote is verbatim and in full. While one is free to quibble with my evaluations, please keep in mind that Ptolemy is neutral on the matter of Howard Dean.]

For a basic temperament of Howard Dean I get strongly melancholic. This word does not mean the same in traditional astrology that it does in today’s English, i.e., depressed. Depression can come with melancholia, but it isn’t the “anger turned inwards” that psychologists use today. The melancholic needs to be pushed to get going, but once he does he sustains his momentum, and that is clearly true of Dean and his campaign. In the words of one pundit, right now, his campaign is “hot, hot, hot.”

If anyone has seen Howard Dean on the campaign trail, melancholic is not the word that springs to mind. To see how he expresses this determination we need the significators of manners. Our first choice is always a planet in the ASC. There is none. The second choice is a planet that aspects both Moon and Mercury, the significators of the mind. Saturn in Virgo does this, but the orbs are wide, about 6 degrees. Saturn as significator of the manners doesn’t fit this man at all. The next choice is the planet or planets that most engage Mercury and the Moon. Here we find that the Moon in Gemini is dominated by Mercury who is house ruler and triplicity ruler in this chart, and Mercury in Scorpio is dominated by Mars in whose rulership and triplicity he resides. The catchall word used often to describe Dean is “rash.” Mercury-Mars is an apt symbol for rashness.

The best of Ptolemy lies in his descriptions of the significators of the manners, which he calls rulers of the soul. What Ptolemy says is reproduced below in its entirety. Obviously everything listed does not apply to Howard Dean. On the good side Ptolemy says:

“Allied with Mercury, in honorable positions Mars makes his subjects leaders of armies, skillful, vigorous, active, not to be despised, resourceful, inventive, sophistic, painstaking, rascally talkative, pugnacious, tricky, unstable, systematic workers, practicing evil arts, keen-witted, deceitful, hypocritical, insidious, of bad character, meddlers, inclined to rascality but nevertheless successful and capable of keeping contract and faith with persons like themselves, and in general injurious to their enemies and helpful to their friends.”

And that’s the good stuff. When badly placed he says:

“In opposite positions he makes them spendthrifts, avaricious, savage, venturesome, daring prone to change their minds, excitable, easily aroused, liars thieves, impious, perjurers, ready to take the offensive, seditious, kindlers of fires, creators of disturbances in the theater, insolent, piratical, burglars, murderers, forgers, villains, wizards, magicians, sorcerers, homicides,”

I think we can safely ignore from “piratical” on, although “creators of disturbances in theaters” intrigues me

Let’s look at some of what Ptolemy says that makes sense in context:

“leaders of armies,”

In a sense that is what he is doing now;

“skillful, vigorous, active,”

I’ll agree and note that these words fit the campaign as well.

“not to be despised,”

I don’t know.

“resourceful, inventive,”

He raised a lot of money by being both of these;

“sophistic,”

His supporters would say “no;” his detractors would say “definitely.”

“painstaking, rascally talkative, pugnacious,”

Perfect description of many of his speeches.

“tricky, unstable,”

Tricky, I don’t know, but unstable is a word that comes up over and again from his detractors.

“systematic workers”

Definitely. His campaign is wel organized and effective so far.

“practicing evil arts,”

I confess ignorance on this one. Ptolemy counts this as a plus.

“keen-witted, deceitful, hypocritical, insidious, of bad character,”

Well, he is a politician.

“meddlers, inclined to rascality but nevertheless successful,”

Many members of the Democrat party who oppose him would agree with this.

“and capable of keeping contract and faith with persons like themselves,”

Unfortunately this is all too typical of most politicians.

"They keep contract with people like themselves and few others.and in general injurious to their enemies and helpful to their friends,”

We’ll see.

Poorly placed significators, says Ptolemy, produce this:

“In opposite positions he makes them spendthrifts,"

While no self-respecting Democrat would admit it, G.W. Bush has spent more money on domestic issues than any President. The current President signed the largest farm support bill, the largest education bill, and the largest medical care bill in American history. Howard Dean says this is not enough and he would spend more. He did, reportedly, spend enormous amounts in Vermont.

“avaricious, savage, venturesome,”

His speeches border on savage although that is for effect (one hopes). Venturesome is right on the money. I’ll put avaricious on hold.


“ daring, prone to change their minds,”

He is taking on his party’s establishment, so that’s daring. He has waffled on issues, so do lots of others.

“excitable, easily aroused,”

Very

“liars thieves,”

He refuses to allow records of his tenure in Vermont to be opened for public use. “Liar” therefore is a good possibility. Most recently he made a rash statement calling the theory that the President was tipped off re: 9/11 by the Saudis and did nothing "interesting." When pushed as to why he thought this interesting, he fudged a little bit and after realizing what he had just said, added “But I don’t think it’s true.” Well then why did he think it was interesting? He had no answer. When questioned about the remark later, he denied making it, despite the fact it was broadcast on live TV, and instead attacked the reporter and his employer for making it up. He’s lying.

No one has accused him of theft to my knowledge.

“ impious,”

He admits he left his church because a dispute over a bicycle path. This is hardly a religious issue, so impious fits.

“perjurers, ready to take the offensive, …”

I don’t know about perjury, but he is ever ready to take the offensive.

“seditious, kindlers of fires, …”

Kindlers of fires? Perhaps metaphorically this works. No sedition as of yet.

“creators of disturbances in the theater, …”

I will hunt his biographies to see if this ever happened just to validate astrology.

“insolent,”

I think this fits.

“piratical, burglars, murderers, forgers, villains, wizards, magicians, sorcerers, homicides,”

To my knowledge none of the above apply.

Next we’ll look at how these significators of the manners and Lord of the Geniture (Lady in his case) play a role in his ambitions.

Tom
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Sue



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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The idea that easy aspects indicate victory implies someone is winning a popularity contest and has no more responsibility than kissing the popularity queen rather than being a world leader. To me it indicates the candidate who is going to be playing golf, not exercising authority in a stress filled world.


This is exactly what was said in an article in Mountain Astrologer a couple of years back. The one with the easy aspects gets to go home. I wasn't suggesting that the person with the easy aspects will win the election. What I was saying is that they both have some significant things going on in their charts during the campaign. The impression that has been given by the press is that Bush is basically a certainty to be reelected. It's impossible to make that call, particularly without knowing who will be running against him. Both men show the potential for great changes in their lives in the next year or so. One thing that does occur to me however, is that the more significant change for Bush would be to lose the election rather than win it.

I feel that I am at a distinct disadvantage here to respond to your last post as you have mentioned several things about what you know of Dean. I have almost no knowledge of who he is and what sort of a person he appears to be.
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Tom
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This is exactly what was said in an article in Mountain Astrologer a couple of years back.


I'll have to reconsider my position Wink

You're right, we can't make a call with any degree of certainty since we don't know who will be running. Bush is a better bet than anyone, but as my father used to say, "No one has a contract with God."

Changes may be coming, but changes for President Bush could well be within the office rather than outside of it. Bill Clinton served a realatively innocuous first term. He managed to help lose the House of Representatives to the Republicans and get his signature Health Care Plan sent down the tubes, but other than that, it was no big deal. Changes sure came in the second term, however.

I know you and others outside the US are at a disadvantage regarding Howard Dean since the prmaries aren't going to get the coverage overseas like they do here. My next "installment" will deal mroe with the natal chart and less subjective opinion.

Tom
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Deb
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The idea that easy aspects indicate victory implies someone is winning a popularity contest and has no more responsibility than kissing the popularity queen rather than being a world leader. To me it indicates the candidate who is going to be playing golf, not exercising authority in a stress filled world.


This thought is very much on my mind at the moment. My eldest daughter has Venus opposite Jupiter across her asc-desc with Mercury and the nodes caught up between the trine and sextile. But all of her problems revolve around not acting with enough long-term responsibility and always seeking the ‘easy option’. And she causes herself as much trouble through that attitude as someone with a more obviously afflicted chart.

I don’t see the Saturn return as a major obstacle by itself, but the Saturn event Bush experiences in June is the return and completion of Saturn conjunct Sun. Then that’s followed by his Saturn return around the time of the election. I consider Saturn conjunct Sun more debilitating than Saturn conjunct Saturn, because it can impact upon his personal health, vitality and will. I doubt anyone can say whether it indicates defeat because it depends on how Bush stands up to the challenge. I’d imagine it will show through in his policies by him taking a very resolute stance and coming across as unbending to public will. That may cause him to lose popularity, but you know public popularity is a very strange thing. When it comes to the crunch most people want to follow firm leaders and there is always that dictum ‘better the devil you know’.

So I think that if Bush’s leadership is going to topple the signs will be there in June as the Saturn-Sun perfects and then moves into the Saturn return. I actually think going into office on a Saturn return is great for a political leader because it suggests he’ll have a very clear sense of responsibility towards his undertakings. I’m also interested in following the precedent set by Blair’s Saturn-Sun contact because I’ve always been interested in the strong tie of support between the two and I’m curious as to how the fate of one might reflect upon the fate of the other. Blair is looking ever more willing to put his leadership on the line over unpopular policies. It is almost as if he is pleading ‘take the pressure off or take me out of the job’. I actually think Blair would welcome the chance to step down over a matter of principle rather than suffer a slow and painful demise in popularity and support. He will have a tough time in January with the resurrection of the Hutton inquiry and a number of other hard policies coming to a head. Health issues are circulating and I think he is too aware that his enemies are gathering in the wings. We can see the storm brewing in our national chart with the transit of Saturn over the MC, whilst opposing the Sun. At the same time the Queen, who has Saturn culminating in her horoscope goes for a knee operation – the first time she has had to cancel engagements for health reasons in over 10 years and her only stay in hospital for over 20 years. The Queen can afford to take a bit of time off, Blair can’t. As regards his will to carry on, his transits seem more immediately threatening than Bush’s because as Saturn makes a sextile to his Sun it conjoins his his natal Uranus. If he can make it through that storm there is no reason to suppose that Bush can’t make it through the challenges that his Saturn contacts make.

So, we have a Howard leading Australia, a Howard leading the opposition in the UK and a Howard looking good in the running for the US. If they all get to govern at the same time international meetings between the three could become very confusing. The name is derived from Germanic term "howart," meaning "high chief" apparently, so quite a good name for anyone wanting to make it big in government.
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Tom
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howard Dean Part 2

[I’m proud of correct predictions whether astrological or not. In my previous post I noted the political situation could change at any time, and over the weekend it did. The capture of Saddam Hussein steals a lot of Dean’s thunder. Whether it will derail his campaign or not remains to be seen. What follows was written before Saddam’s capture, but I think it is still relevant, so I left it as I wrote it with no knowledge of the events of the day. There is more astrology than the last post and I think that is relevant whether Dean succeeds or not]

Ambitions


It is no secret that Howard Dean wishes to be President of the United States, a rather lofty ambition. His chart gives strong indications of lofty ambitions. Mars one of the significators of the manners is in the political sign of Sagittarius and rules the 11th house of hopes and ambitions. Saturn rules his 9th house of politics and aspects, albeit widely both Mars Moon and Mercury. But these only show an interest in politics. Where is the motivation to obtain the highest office in the country? Venus is the strongest planet in his chart, easily. Using Placidus cusps she would be in the 5th house of her joy and she is powerfully placed in rulership in Libra. This not only places her in the triplicity of Mercury, one of Dean’s driving forces, but she is also the exaltation ruler of his MC. He is going for the gold.

This seemingly contradicts the rest of the chart. All the planets are below the horizon except the Moon and Uranus and they are in the 12th house. The Moon, in fact hidden in the 12th is his ASC ruler. Morin and Bonatti would consider the Moon badly placed in Gemini as it is in the 12th sign from the Moon’s rulership Cancer. It is a skittish Moon at best.

What is really interesting is Venus in Libra. I would place her in the 5th as she is within 5 degrees of the 5th cusp. The 5th is the house of Venus’ joy, i.e., where she likes to hang out. Venus. Venus sextiles Mars and is in the triplicity of Mercury, and as she is in her own sign and no other planet has any essential dignity except Jupiter (face) she is clearly the Lady of the Geniture. She rules the 5th house and the intercepted Taurus in 10, but most importantly Venus is the exaltation ruler of the MC. This dominant planet wants honor, status, and perhaps authority. Venus may rule the 5th but Saturn in analytical Virgo is the almuten and couples creativity with hard work.

Because of its gooshy new age connotations and association with “relationships” Libra is in the running for the most misunderstood sign of the zodiac. Libra is a cardinal, masculine air sign. It is not to be taken lightly. Even with other highly dignified planets, Venus in Libra may have taken over Dean’s chart. In fact, she has no competition.

Last November, roughly the beginning of Dean’s campaign, he began a new firdar period, a Venus period which emphasizes the strongest planet in his chart. It was under her influence that he began his campaign. This past November the Mercury sub-period began tying one of the rulers of the soul to the strongest planet in his chart. Venus is sextile Mars, making the triumvirate complete. Mercury is the triplicity ruler of the 9th house of politics is sextile to the 9th house ruler who is in a Mercury sign. Venus exalts the 10th and rules the intercepted sign in the 10th, and Mars rules his ambitions as ruler of the 11th. Progressed Venus is at 28 Sagittarius about to change signs and conjunct the domicile ruler of the 10th, Jupiter. The top part of the chart is activated at this time and Howard Dean is making the most of it.

Tom
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Deb
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Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The good thing about this is that I now know who Dean is and I can follow news reports here with a lot more interest Cool

Still, there's a lot of time left for things to change again. Politics is such a fickle world...
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