skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

New astrology for the 21st century

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Philosophy & Science
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mike



Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 72

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:32 pm    Post subject: New astrology for the 21st century Reply with quote

I have some basic ideas.
First a heliocentric astrology,
then a sidereal zodiac,
then the adding of Opiuchus
the lost zodiac constellation in
astrology. And leave the 9
planets alone, maybe taking
Pluto out of the picture and
just working with 8. No Chiron,
Pallas or anything else.

With that as a basis create a whole
system. Maybe add new geometrical
patterns and bingo!. I hope traditional
astrologers don't get offended by this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1380

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Youíve proposed a lot of changes without giving a single reason for any of them. Anyone can do this and call it the newest, brightest and best.

Iím not offended. Iím also not at all impressed. Are you maybe just trying to ruffle some feathers?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike



Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 72

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heliocentric astrology, well I think
that since the copernican revolution
astrology has been left in obscurity.
Now it's time for astrology's copernican
revolution.

Sidereal zodiac, same as the above. The
constellations have moved, and if astrology
reflects that, it's better for it's actuality.

Opiuchus. Well it seems a little absurd that
of the 13 zodiacal constellation only 12 are
included. As if 13 were an unlucky number.
I think Opiuchus should be included.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tumbling Sphinx



Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 247

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And bingo!!! ?

What has been won - a new, disconnected system without relevance to Earth?

Doesn't address the interpretive re-orientation.

For example, Sun = self = ego.

A "heliocentric" system = a self-centered system -- "burn baby, burn"? Is this a proposal for astrology to go up in smoke?

People don't live on the Sun - they're "created" here on earth, and live their lives here on earth ... even astronauts are attached to this home planet of ours via silvery umbilical cords.

In terms of the Sun being the central point around which the planets revolved, this was known long before Copernicus' time and is already inherent within the order.

The Sun is prime to solar, material, territorial consolidation - making things manifest, the "created" (as compared to 'uncreated').

This is already represented via the modern tropical zodiac which is based on the Sun - Sun-Earth bond. And Sun is prime to erecting angles in a chart.

The modern tropical zodiac is one orientation (& one construct) within the larger schematic & mechanics of time.

Sidereal zodiac commences with the stars - 48 constellations (per Ptolemy), not 12, and Ophiuchus has also been around since then.

This at a time when the "ecliptic" was considered the "equator" - with regions north and south of this central way and not just a product of the Sun (Sun-Earth bond) but primarily the path where eclipses occurred etc ... instead of latter, modern innovations whereby everything was fixed to terrestrial co-ordinate system and the 'celestial equator' became an extension of earth's equator etc and significance of local horizons in the thrust for globalization became obscured.

The orientation and framework shifted in keeping with views of the time not so long ago that earth didn't move.

In addition, this notion that the constellations need to fit the 12-fold divisions is misguided, imo.

The 12-fold divisions were based on phases of new Moon (which directly relates & brings in influence of the Sun) during the passage of a year. Involves some understanding of calendrical constructs.

The two lights - Moon & Sun - were the prime "timing mechanism" against the outer bodies of stars. The "signs" of the constellations also being derived primarily from the passage of Moon in relation to Sun & Earth, as were the divisions.

The star constellations reside beyond these two lights, not beneath them. Via the planets and our two lights - Moon & Sun - the influence of the constellations were conveyed to earth, where correspondences were drawn, & vice-versa, from earth to stars.

The divisions started with Moon phase (as per use of water clocks) shifted towards regularity of the Sun (as per increasing use of sun dials) ... to the point where, in the west, the Moon was dropped from the construct as it's based on, for example, arcs of the Sun.
The Moon in western system is not as integrated within the prime construct per se as it was previously as it ceased to be prime to calendar etc, but instead is something of an overlay within the construct.

In suggesting use of the sidereal zodiac because the constellations have moved - by this I'm thinking you're meaning the roughly 24 degrees of distance between sidereal & tropical (rather than stars proper motion, which is minimal) - I don't think solves anything.

This divergence shows a progression in time. On the one hand we have a solar year reflected by the tropical zodiac, on the other hand we have the solar year within a larger construct of time which can only be seen by aligning sidereally. Which one's real? Both are, relatively speaking.

The constellations haven't moved relatively speaking, Earth has, and the solar tropical zodiac is simply the construct as relates to 1 year of time (fixed under and in accord to the Sun).

By finding where it points to in context to sidereal shows where Earth's at in relation to the bigger picture ... if just relying on the solar tropical zodiac - which when fixed to the sun ceases to wander (and also erects something of an illusion) - the bigger & current over-all picture becomes obscured.

This was largely a result of learning process/developments in astronomy of the west.

For this there's also a need to understand the scales and apparent direction (motion) of time.
For example, construct of a year, vs a month, vs a week, vs a day (contents and direction observed during a day).

Divisions relate directly to period - length - of time under consideration and what was being used for purposes of dividing.

Observed motion during course of day is from East to West.
Planetary motion observed during course of a year as against the stars is from west to east.
Star (constellations) motion during course of a year is from east to west.
Direction of a day = direction of a year if taking one's bearings from the stars = east to west.
Regardless of what hemisphere one lives in.

When reducing & aligning constructs from the contents of a year (or years) to the contents of a day (eg. horary) there's a need to remain aware of how directions, divisions etc change.

Ophiuchus has not been lost from the schematic. Its inclusion has a correspondence to those years including a 13th month - which was an intercalary month of old - month's based on passage of Moon in relation to Sun & Earth.

Need to be clear here on function of Moon & Sun as relates to the celestial sphere, the stars.

Calendrical constructs have changed significantly in the west - last major one being the Gregorian revision - in the west it being primarily solar which presents some difficulties when reconciling the knowledge inherent in the older systems as to the ordering of time.

The "materialism" for which "the west" has often been criticized also finds its roots in the "west's" total adoption of a solar calendar - all matters relating to the Sun - rather than being in balance with the Moon and aligned with the bigger picture.

For example, while the Churches themselves employed astrology/astrologers ... there were steps taken to sever those practices which were directly associated with the Moon - for cultural, clergy/clerical & psychological reasons.
The Moon as the fastest translator of light is prime to predictive work and prime to measuring the stars.

Personally, I'm of the view that adopting sidereal & whole house system is more effective in mundane work.

But, there's a need to understand each of the constructs within the overall schematic - the purpose they serve - and how innovations to the construct, such as astronomy shifting the frame of reference for measuring purposes has led to confusion.

If there's a feeling that astrology's been left in obscurity, then perhaps there's a corresponding need to get out more to see what's presently going on and all that's available (past & present) within this field.

Seems to me there's a deliberate attempt here to generate re-actions (which is fine, but it is re-active and is based on?) whereas perhaps more deeply considered thought may be in order.

Kind regards,
TS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kerenhappuch



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 396
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post, TS, points articulated very concisely. I may just have to pinch some of your words next time my admission of being a student of astrology precipitates sneers and derision!

Keren
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tumbling Sphinx



Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 247

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Keren! Very Happy

Please, feel free to take a pinch of whatever you need ... unpleasant inflammations such as sneering and derision have been known to improve upon receiving a splash of salty water. Cool

Hope you're having an excellent week!!!

Warmly,
TS.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Philosophy & Science All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated