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Seven Deadly Sins
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josephc



Joined: 07 Nov 2008
Posts: 5

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:30 pm    Post subject: Seven Deadly Sins Reply with quote

Hi Deb,
I must have caught you right next to the computer.
Thanks much for your kind words. I hadn't figured out the pattern before of Dante's sequence and the planets and it does fit into place.
I will backmail you a draft of this section -- only a draft.
Manuscript feels about half done.
Writing this sometimes feels like being in a dark wood, sometimes encased in ice and when it's getting better it's like trying to move in purgatory after the sun has gone down. However I love the way it finally comes out at least so far.
Joseph
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you said you were going to ‘blackmail’ me and I wondered what I’d done Smile
That sounds good. I don’t know as much about Dante as I think I should - I’m waiting for you to educate me.
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1358
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't to be the usual nasty girl but Dante cosmology it's not really unknown...
I would give it for granted

http://istruzione.umbria.it/news2008/dante/lc_pontano_cosmologia.pdf

It's in italian, but i'm ready to swear that whatever introduction to Inferno says the same things.

margherita
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1358
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found some notes from Paradiso:

From the first sky to the seventh we have:

Moon: changeable spirits

Mercury: active spirits (they operated the good for fame)

Venus: lover spirits

Sun: wise spirits

Mars: combative spirits

Jupiter: judging spirits

Saturn: contemplative spirits,

Primum mobile: angels chorus

Empyrean: the Pure Rose of blessed.

On the other hand in Inferno, there are planets skies, but 9 circles of a pit- at the beginning the roots of all the sins, lust, arrogance and avarice.

The more you go down, the more sins are awful and God is far-

1st circle: not baptised souls

2nd : lustful souls

3rd: gluttonous souls

4th: greedy and spendthrift souls;

5th: short-tempered souls;

6th: heretic souls Smile

7th: violent souls ( against others, themselves, God and nature)

8th: fraudulent souls ( seducers, simoniacal, magicians and fortune tellers- here there is Guido Bonatti- thieves, liars;

9th: betrayers of homeland, friendship, hospitality.


Hope it helps,
margherita
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Deb
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Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Margherita! Very helpful indeed.
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, to be honest I don't believe that sins follow planetary order in Inferno and Purgatorio.

The only place where planets are mentioned is in Paradiso, because we are talking of the eight Aristotle skies.

In Purgatorio and Inferno sins are disposed just according their severity.

Too much love for example is at the beginning of the Inferno (the famous Paolo and Francesca, who had no other guilty let alone to be in love) and at the top of Purgatorio.
Why Venus should be at beginning of the list? And Mercury?

On the other still now, I could not find anything more awful that "betrayers of friendship and hospitality".

This comes directly from ancient Greek/Latin education. Here Dante is not mentioning planets, he is mentioning Mediterranean tradition.

Margherita
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
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Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gijada - was there an outer circle of purgatory for Virgil (of course!) and the other virtuous pagans, or did they go in the first circle? I thought they had 'special hell privileges' but it's been a few years since I've read the Commedia. When I think of the early circle, all that comes to mind is Francesca and Paolo, but I know Virgil guided Danté though hell, so....


There's also a frozen lake, Cocytus, if memory serves, at the very centre of the ninth circle for the worst betrayer of all - which was Judas Iscariot in Danté''s view, but I think there were some others really close to that if not in it - betrayers of benefactors especially.
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Olivia,

Olivia wrote:
Gijada - was there an outer circle of purgatory for Virgil (of course!) and the other virtuous pagans, or did they go in the first circle? I thought they had 'special hell privileges' but it's been a few years since I've read the Commedia.


I'm not really an expert, just we read Divina Commedia in our schools.

I believe Virgilio lives in Limbo- in the first circle of Inferno, together with Ptolemy.

Quote:
When I think of the early circle, all that comes to mind is Francesca and Paolo, but I know Virgil guided Danté though hell, so....

One of the most famous and beautiful parts of Inferno,

Quote:

There's also a frozen lake, Cocytus, if memory serves, at the very centre of the ninth circle for the worst betrayer of all - which was Judas Iscariot in Danté''s view, but I think there were some others really close to that if not in it - betrayers of benefactors especially.


At the bottom of Inferno, with Lucifer are Judas- betrayer of Christ and Brutus and Cassius, betrayers of Julius Caesar.

I believe because in a Mediterranean education there is nothing more sacred than hospitality and friendship, we took it from Greek culture.

Dante cannot think something worse,
margherita
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4924
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
8th: fraudulent souls ( seducers, simoniacal, magicians and fortune tellers- here there is Guido Bonatti- thieves, liars;


Dante tells us Bonatti has his head turned about, so that he has to walk forever backwards.....

Thats where too much astrological prediction concerning the future leads you. You have been warned! Shocked

Mark
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‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
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josephc



Joined: 07 Nov 2008
Posts: 5

Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:39 pm    Post subject: Seven Deadly Sins Reply with quote

Hi, This is only a test! Want to make sure my new computer and username/password are compatible.
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