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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Body piercing and tattooing
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking for that might keep her busy for a while, because I don't think there is one.
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
we can have a bit of fun guessing where people's scars, moles and tattoos are!!


I'm interested in this. I never knew my father's birth time, but he had a tattoo on his right arm. He was a sailor during WWII - it was expected. It might help with a rectification.

Tom
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol. Okay. I have three prominent scars on my body, how about I send you my birth data and you guess where they are, I'll tell you right now I have Moon in Leo and No tattoo on my person!

Smile too keep it fair I could tell Deb in advance where the scars are, actually a couple smaller ones as well so I'll tell her all those in advance and you see if you can figure them out? what do you think? Smile

granny who lives in a modern Age and still has scars, though I have lived to tell the tales! and there have been a few escapades that shoulda killed me....
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

granny_skot wrote:
lol. Okay. I have three prominent scars on my body, how about I send you my birth data and you guess where they are, I'll tell you right now I have Moon in Leo and No tattoo on my person!

Smile too keep it fair I could tell Deb in advance where the scars are, actually a couple smaller ones as well so I'll tell her all those in advance and you see if you can figure them out? what do you think? Smile

granny who lives in a modern Age and still has scars, though I have lived to tell the tales! and there have been a few escapades that shoulda killed me....


That might be fun. I'd try. It would be also interesting to have a look at that guy you mentioned with the forked tongue. You wouldn't happen to have his birth data? Razz


RC
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kerenhappuch



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 396
Location: UK

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously not on the site? I thought it was. Ah well...

We base our predictions on sign, dispositor and house position. I'll try not to leave anything out...

Each sign rules an area of the body, from Aries = head down to Pisces = feet. The place on that part is shown by the degrees eg. 12 Sag mid-thigh, 29 Sag pretty close to the knee, 05 Capricorn the top of the knee etc.

The house shows whether it's on the front or easily visible, eg. On MC - slap bang in the middle, top or front of the body part, IC behind or underneath, Asc on side close to body, Desc on the outer side.

The sign of the dispositor shows which side of the body part, i.e. feminine sign = left side, masculine sign = right.

I'll include some examples at the end!

We look at the following points:

1. Asc

2. Asc ruler

3. Moon

4. 6th cusp

5. 6th ruler

Not forgetting of course general indications such as Mars rising gives a scarred face, Sun gives freckles etc...

Eg. my chart: 12 Aquarius rises, with Saturn in Sag on the MC. I have a largeish freckle halfway down my right shin that's visible through sheer tights. Aquarius = lower leg, 12 degrees = about half way down, dispositor in masculine sign = right shin, dispositor on MC = right in the middle of the front of my shin!

Lord 1 at 09 Sag, disposited by Jupiter in Pisces:
Left (dispositor in feminine sign) thigh (Sag), close to the top (09 degrees), inside leg (dispositor under horizon in 1st house). And I do indeed have a mole there!

Now here's an easy one one to get you started: My mother has Moon in mid-Leo (though we have no time so no house position), disposited by Sun in Capricorn - where is her scar?

Get it? It's a brilliant party trick - when it works.... Lala Happy

Sorry to those I'm offending by using astrology in such a superficial way - but it can be quite a good tool for shutting up those annoying skeptics who are adamant that astrology is make-believe when you tell them as a complete stranger that they have a big black mole on the inside of their right thigh LOL!

Apparently Lilly used this method with his skeptical horary clients too, using the horary Asc to show the client's scars/moles - any volunteers to try it?!!

Keren
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have wanted his data since i first met the brat but unfortunately he wont give it up... yet... If I ever get it I will tell the info.

birth info

13 April 1962
Los Angeles Ca
6:07 pm

you will know you have it right if you get moon in 10th house at 18 Leo 45 and
asc 21 Libra 14 (sorry just realized I put leo in there )

sending deb the scar list for accuracy sake
And Deb has the Scar list now so feel free to take a stab at it! Pun intended

Granny
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Laura BT



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 39

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Decorating the body, with or without piercing or needles, indelibly and permanently, has been something we humans have been doing since we huddled in caves carving notches on bones as lunation markers. Adornment, as with all visual signals, such as trends and fashion, is a way of communicating. Not only can a look scare away Ďoutsidersí, but it also tells fellow tribal members the position and value of oneís personal standing in the community.

Tattooing is seen thematically in the horoscope with Mars as ruler of all things sharp that draws blood, being in aspect to Venus, Queen of embellishment, who, in her turn, is in aspect to Saturn, ruler of the skin, and/or, should a person create a great impact upon others, the collective planets, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto (and corresponding houses) will also play a part. The level of status of any tattooed individual, as seen through the eyes of the collective, would involve the Sun, Moon or Venus in aspect to Saturn and Pluto. (Chiron could well be in the astrological equation, but I am not sure how the need to Ďovercome an obstacleí, i.e. what the wound represents, without it being in aspect to Venus).

Apart from circumstances where people slash and scar themselves because of a lack of Venusian self worth, an act which only reinforces their point of personal devaluation (and Mars/Chiron would surely be active in these kind of situations), it is generally true to say that to mark and/or scar oneís body is usually considered a rite of passage into adulthood. As the astrological Sun shows all that we identify with, and what we think looks good is Venus, it is Mars who cuts the Saturnian skin. The not-so-ancient Nubians are an extreme example of scarification, and the facial Maori Moko art shows a stunning historical illustration of how tribals demonstrate each personís unique but common identity. So while the timing of most ceremonial rites would also be considered Saturnian, practices that involve the enhancing of outer appearances is Venus. The resurrection of inner-health, as well as the protection from and removal of unwanted spirits may well be the domain of Chiron -- but the inner-strength that is found by coming out the other side of tremendous pain -- has to, in my opinion, be attributed to a dominant Pluto, Scorpio, the 8th house, and itsí ruler.

But I ought to mention how I am interested to see this question: not least because way back in 1976 I wrote my art school thesis on this very subject. The rebellious planet of change, Uranus, was transiting transformational Scorpio at the time (and aspecting my natal Venus Ė although I wasnít that astrologically aware), and with few reference books in Punkís wild year, I spent months hanging out with various tattoo artists, always miraculously avoiding their needles. (Still successful to date! Although, I maintain the right to change my mind; should I ever end up on a Polynesian island under the watchful eye and trained hand of a Shaman who marks the body with a certain pattern, on a certain body part, at a certain time, in order to repair harm, heal, and protect the spirit).

What fascinates me, though, in the current world of tattoos is the proliferation of Ďancientí designs. Rather than a discreet little blue bird or rose, or even a sailorís graffiti travelogue of visited ports and girlís names, what we often see now is often a full body visual, male or female. En mass (probably the influence of Uranus, Neptune or Pluto passing through Scorpio; 1956-1995), whole swathes of people use body art as a means of communicating personal intention. Our world is one of constant change: and we regularly witness a representation longing for the past (the Moon), a homeland, family, or tribe to identify with (Moon and Sun), where the individual can establish and find their place in the clan - be it Celtic knots, Gothic spikes, fluffy fairies, a Hellís Angel, an Indianís Om, or Japanese Bushido, the tattoo - and act of scarification - is a personal message to the external world: consciously or unconsciously claiming to be apart but connected, declaring that they invincibly strong (Mars), someone who can withstand pain and (Pluto), currently, has an aesthetic beyond Ďnormalí fashionable Venusian conception: someone who is may be a rebel or dreamer and, potentially, masochistic. Therefore, when looking at those who use tattoos to make lasting statements, we must always look at The Lights in relation to Venus, Mars and Saturn, (and optional: Uranus for defiance, Neptune for illusion, and Pluto for pain), noting houses they fall into, (8th very probable) and the various hard aspects these planets create to each other. We must also always look at the various influences the tattooed admire and long to belong to, to really understand what gets under their Saturnian skin (sorry, it was an irresistible pun!).
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Laura BT



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 39

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Granny_skot, Your chap has ticked all the boxes for body art: Venus as chart ruler, and lord of the 8th. Sun/Mercury on the Decendant in Mars ruled Aries. Venus is in Taurus, in a tight and tough to carry Fixed Cross; Venus is in opposition to Neptune in Scorpio, and squares Saturn in Aquarius, and the Moon in Leo. Adding to the pain, a Jupiter /Chiron conjunction opposes Pluto in Virgo, which brings us full circle as Pluto trines the seventh house Venus, which is at home by sign and house; this is someone who has serious issues with authoirty, but thinks he looks great! Scorpio is also on the cusp of the 2nd. At least this helps you to undestand him a little better. Is he also an artist?
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Location: England

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Laura

Just wanted to thank you for the great info.

Welcome to the forum
Deb
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laura BT wrote:
Granny_skot, Your chap has ticked all the boxes for body art: Venus as chart ruler, and lord of the 8th. Sun/Mercury on the Decendant in Mars ruled Aries. Venus is in Taurus, in a tight and tough to carry Fixed Cross; Venus is in opposition to Neptune in Scorpio, and squares Saturn in Aquarius, and the Moon in Leo. Adding to the pain, a Jupiter /Chiron conjunction opposes Pluto in Virgo, which brings us full circle as Pluto trines the seventh house Venus, which is at home by sign and house; this is someone who has serious issues with authoirty, but thinks he looks great! Scorpio is also on the cusp of the 2nd. At least this helps you to undestand him a little better. Is he also an artist?


Hi Laura:

Have you confused Granny's birth data with the forked tongue "brat"? I thought this was Granny's birth data.

RC
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Laura BT



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
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Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it is granny_skots! Thanks RC, I'm glad someone is double checking this mercury retrograde action!

And wow! What a chart it is -- Maybe it's because Granny's own astrological pattern is so potentially creative and dynamic, that it explains her interest with this subject, and why she is repulsed by (and, dare I say, drawn to) tattoos and forked tongues?

I wonder how one inveigles 'brats' birth data from him?!

Mercury rules the tongue; and if his is 'forked' (yuk), then one might be right to assume he has Gemini/Mercury/3rd house challenging his Mars/Saturn/Pluto?

Forked tongues are associated with the devil, lies, and reptiles - not a pleasant mix! This would read astrologically: Saturn, Mercury, Pluto. Saturn, ruler of skin, is also the Lord of Karma; maybe Brat has some past-life association he is inexplicably attached to?

It's worth noting all this while Mercury is going retrograde from Scorpio, back to Libra. Could it be too much to hope that 'Brat' will re-think, change his mind and let it grow normally?!
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

he may at some point let it go back as it is a pain to keep it forked, but his business is body piercing and alteration so I suspect he'll always have something weird going on, and I too suspect he's a gemini, but haven't been able to verify.

and yes I find it amusing that I like a guy and then find out he has tattoos, possibly also amusing that the men in question have hidden them from public view,

and more interesting, I have two male friends who's birthdays are both 1971, one is 27 January, one 13 February (libra rising), both had Dragons Tattoed accross the left chest, hmmm I'd forgotten that until you reminded me. something to consider perhaps. but makes me think even more generational

and yes the birth data is mine.
Granny
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Julie K



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 378
Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:41 am    Post subject: Body Piercing and Tatoos Reply with quote

All,

A very interesting discussion and quite informative.

Two male persons known to me have tatoos. One is 77 years of age now and both arms are heavily covered in 'tats' as he calls them. I had known this male for years without knowing about the 'tats'- he made note of the fact he had always worn long sleeved shirts when being interviewed for jobs.

The other of - early 40's - has a ring of dolpins on one upper arm - he's into saving the whales and dolphins.

Both males are Mercury ruled - one a Gemini Sun and the other a Virgo Sun. Confused

Julie K
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moles, or birth-marks, and their signification to man and woman by Maud Wheeler (London: Roxburghe Press, 1894)

http://www.openlibrary.org/details/molesorbirthmark00wheeiala

I came across the online reproduction of this text yesterday whilst looking for something else. I havenít read it myself so I donít know how good it is, but it seems to be mainly concerned with the analysis of marks and moles based on astrological rulerships. If anyone has any prominent moles (I donít), they can test this book out by looking at what it is supposed to mean. Also, Granny sent me a list of her marks and moles, in case anyone wants to see if they can identify where these are. I use Lillyís technique in horary, (as described by Keren), but Iíve never applied them to natal charts.

BTW, Lilly didnít see this as superficial. He says in his introduction that it was the good results he obtained in identifying peoplesí marks and moles that made him take the study of astrology seriously.
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: California, USA

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly it was rising signs that made me get more serious about Astrology, a lot of Aries stuff didn't make seense to me until I learned about rising signs and read more aboutLibra, was a bit of an eye opening,

but back to scars and such... anyone going ot make a stabe at mine?

no problem if you miss, just interesting to see if you get some hits.

Granny
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