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What abou the collision Pluton/Jupiter
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ryvita



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 125
Location: england

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:41 pm    Post subject: What abou the collision Pluton/Jupiter Reply with quote

I hav tried to make some senses of the aspect on 11th of Decembre, and everytime i Learn something someone has different view

will this aspect be positive and or can we expect a sad end
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1380

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Around December 11th Jupiter will conjoin Pluto late in Sagittarius.

And that, as they say, is that.


Oh, add a little galactic center hocus-pocus and you give people something to talk about. They want to get us scared and running in circles. The joke’s on them. I’ve been doing that for ages.
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ryvita



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 125
Location: england

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:16 pm    Post subject: hello my optimist friend Reply with quote

well if you put it in this way, i am going to have a nice sleep Lala Happy but it will be interesting and without competition and challenge to find which astrologers have it right

there is a fantastic astrologer (unfortunately A Barbault french) that traced back from century this conjonction from the french revolution etc etc

well my friend let's us contemplate, that life on its own is a destiny and nobody can grab it

see you in 2 weeks time from now Laughing Laughing
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I will just assume that my mothers birthday will come as usual on Dec 12th and get her a present anyway because I have yet to see Jupiter join up with anyone the some good did not come of it.

Wink

Granny
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Laura BT



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 39

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello All,
Looking at the long awaited Jupiter-Pluto conjunction, it intrigues me:

19:36GMT 11 Dec 2007

is when these two form a dynamic coalition, only two days after a new moon in Sagittarius; Mercury is also in Sagittarius, albeit in T square to Saturn in Virgo opposite Uranus in Pisces.

The chart I have (location southern France) has 5Leo on the Asc, 20 Aries M/C, and the actual conjunction taking place in the 5th house. Sag Jupiter rules the chart and Jup/Pluto trine the part of fortune at 28Leo (w Regulus (S node + Saturn)). Mars rules the M/c, who is in the 11th retrograde, and opposite the Moon.

With this signature, where the power is in a very ego-bound creative situation, the ‘risk’ element is heightened - plutocrats playing to win. The Moon (ruling the public) in 6th House Capricorn seems dulled by comparison.

This is a serious astrological meeting that most astrologers are pointing to some religious overhaul that could (ultimately) be beneficial.

An Israel - Palestine Middle-East agreement would be nice.

And while I appreciate there are those in horary/classic who don't use Pluto, this modern astrologer does. I also hold with the view that when Pluto was demoted last year by the astronomical board, it only added to Pluto’s hidden force, the ‘unseen’ power.

But Kirk is right, what makes this 12-year conjunction at 28 degrees Sagittarius infinitely more amazing, is where this union takes place, pointing directly towards the galactic core at 26ish degrees Sagittarius.

And I am with Zohra, wondering what could this all mean while we each go through our various personal, psychological and even political ways of relating to this rare conjunction. What are the wider implications of a Jupitarian-Plutonic transformational teaching opening up humanity to the galactic centre? How far will Jupiter's arrow go? All the way down into the swirling black vortex, a realm that perhaps Pluto is more familiar with?

What could the sky planet, Jupiter, possibly have to say to the ruler of the underworld, Pluto, about such a rare occasion and its’ significance upon the evolution of humanity, and in relation to our galaxy?

Bare in mind that we will have to wait another 248 years, which may well be a blink in the eye of Brahma, but it is a very l-o-n-g time in human years, until secretive Pluto returns to galaxy-central, with or without Jupiter, planet of truth.

Because these two planets are involved, perhaps the risk will be to reveal the BIG SECRET: maybe it will coincide with something that will alter our perception of God? Such as the discovery of the Higgs Boson particle (aka 'the God particle') that CERN is so busy atom-smashing in an effort to find this elusive particle in it's plutonic underground Swiss bunker?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson

I am not a physicist, nor a quantum scientist, merely an astrologer, but with my four planets in the 9th house, the conceptual fascinates: I wonder if a ‘boson 115gigaelectronvolt’ gave mass to every elementary particle, and if the 17th particle were found to be the actual particle necessary to create mass, then what would be the implications of such a find human consciousness and to a religious person's perception? Or indeed, would such information remain underground or pie in the sky, and make absolutely no difference at all?

No doubt one of astrology’s best friends, Mr Dawkin’s, would find something to say!

There could even be other revelations about Plutonic ‘dark energy’, or dark matter?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071127142128.htm

Whatever transpires around this coming month, it will certainly have a large impact upon our psyches, hopefully for the greater good.

The galactic core remains activated by our solar system’s activity until the end of January, when Venus in Sag opposes Mars retrograde in Gemini. By then the Capricorn effect will have also kicked in, both Jupiter and Pluto will be in the sign of sea-goat, when we’ll do well to put on our ‘responsible’ hats and think intuitively.

Seeing as astrology has been known to predict the future, what does anyone else think about this upcoming conjunction?

ps. happy birthday to Granny's mom!
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1380

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But Kirk is right, what makes this 12-year conjunction at 28 degrees Sagittarius infinitely more amazing, is where this union takes place, pointing directly towards the galactic core at 26ish degrees Sagittarius.


WARNING: Strong Reaction Follows!

Just for the record: I have a low opinion of this galactic core stuff. It sat there all those years and hardly anyone gave it any attention (did anyone?). Then people noticed that Pluto was approaching it (zodiacally) and all of a sudden it’s sending important messages to planet Earth. It’s an astrological fad with ‘scary monster’ appeal. Interest will wane once Pluto has moved on into Capricorn.

We lower the risk of floating off into the blue if we focus our attention on what we see in the sky over here, what we see over there, what's about to rise, and what has already set.
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Laura BT



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 39

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kirk, I have no intention of denigrating your approach to astrology by any means. Apologies if I misunderstood.

Although, I wonder exactly what you find so “scary monster” about the swirling heart of the galaxy? It is only an astronomical fact - we have a black hole, so what is there to be afraid off? (FYI I have read much scarier insinuations and connotations about certain aspects and planets from classic texts!)

That you prefer to use in your practice what you can see rising and setting with your naked eye is totally up to you; and I am happy for everyone to do what suits, as long as his or her integrity is in tact.

As always, I maintain that there are different strokes for different folks, and whatever method one uses, intelligent information delivered with honesty and truth, coming from the heart, is often a most excellent substitute for lacking intuitive insight into any Divine moment.

Perhaps coming from Irish decent, with my Sun conjunct Uranus, in square to Neptune and trine Saturn, I actually find ‘floating in the blue’ a very healing and supportive activity, one that allows me to ‘tune in’ to the more subtle cosmic vibration.

In the face of disdain, disapproval or ridicule (which the astrological world has to constantly deal with – even within the confines of our subject) it is often difficult to find the correct and kindest way of approaching new or heady concepts that others can find challenging to understand. Heaven knows; there are a zillion classical rules that I still have trouble wrapping my brain around!

But FYI: when the Uranus and Saturn conjunction took place in 1987, pointing directly towards the centre of the galaxy, it caused quite a stir among (the more open-minded) astrological community. I am also of the opinion it was this conjunction, and at this particular point in humanity’s evolution, that precipitated the ensuing globalisation, fall of the Berlin Wall etc, as well as opening us all up to the literally galactic information that, up until then, the Hubble telescope taught us astronomically.

That Jupiter’s last hit to the heart of the galaxy, December 1995, might be considered somewhat less eventful, with only the massive leap of understanding the way we communicate via the privatisation of the Internet, which, although military built, then began to charge companies, but went free into universities to encourage Jupitarian students who would then facilitate global awareness; it consequently taught us to think BIG and maintain the Jupiter in Sagittarius optimism for the future.

Perhaps others might want to look back, to check and see if anything significant happened in his or her life during those times and have something to say about these dates. By studying these positions in retrospect, we might learn something? Such as Pope Paul II getting shot during the last Neptune in Sag at the galactic point, and then praying for peace in communist ruled Poland; or secret-astro fan Reagan coming into power in 1981-2, who also strangely had an assassination attempt upon him during this time? Admittedly Saturn and Pluto were conjunct during this time (affecting the money market big time), but the point is that both, JPII and Reagan, luckily escaped death (very Jupiter in Sag), and then went on to profoundly influence humanity in their ways; with Reagan we witnessed the fall of communism, and with most travelled Pope we saw a Pontiff in his Pope-mobile who reached out all over the world to share his beliefs and religion.

By the way, something else ‘out of this world’ did also proliferate in the late-70’s early 80’s: the appearance of Crop Circles!
Now they really are whoo-whoooooooo!!!
Laughing
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Although, I wonder exactly what you find so “scary monster” about the swirling heart of the galaxy? It is only an astronomical fact - we have a black hole, so what is there to be afraid off?

The “scary monster appeal” is the talk of economic, political and environmental upheaval and disaster linked to the Pluto-GC configuration. A lot of people are trying to link Eris and Sedna with the same issues. Fear sells, and we are living in times of massive fear and anxiety.

Quote:

But FYI: when the Uranus and Saturn conjunction took place in 1987, pointing directly towards the centre of the galaxy, it caused quite a stir among (the more open-minded) astrological community. I am also of the opinion it was this conjunction, and at this particular point in humanity’s evolution, that precipitated the ensuing globalisation, fall of the Berlin Wall etc, as well as opening us all up to the literally galactic information that, up until then, the Hubble telescope taught us astronomically.

It’s all so vague – and conveniently so. An astrological event of 1987 causes the Berlin Wall to come down late in ’89; speeds up the globalization of the 90s; and gives us galactic information. Placing it all in the context of ‘human evolution’ gives it importance, purpose and meaning. We probably should bring in the ‘Age of Aquarius’ for the complete picture. Most people have been content to pinpoint these sorts of mundane developments using the cycles and configurations of Jupiter through Pluto, without any sort of galactic influence. But why rest there when you can take something as impressive as the galactic center, give it a zodiacal position, and wait for a body with a spooky reputation to transit the position? The big “stir” of 1987 was the Uranus-Saturn-GC configuration. Then the galactic center became rather unexciting and got little press until Pluto came along, with Jupiter added to make it extra exciting. Over the past year the galactic center has become very famous indeed online. It will fade.

Your mention of the “more open-minded” astrological community reminded me of warnings I’ve heard about being too ‘open-minded’ with a Ouija Board: with the door swung wide open all sorts of riff-raff can enter. Astrology these days tends to grab at everything for meaning. It needs fewer Ouija Board operators.
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Laura BT



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 39

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonjour Zohra, Please point me to the Barbault site? SVP – thanks!

Hello again Kirk,
Thanks for those comments on my musings.

You said:
Quote:
A lot of people are trying to link Eris and Sedna with the same issues. Fear sells, and we are living in times of massive fear and anxiety.


Although aware how fear is a tool, which can be used to dominate and control, hence (Naomi Klein’s astute) ‘shock doctrine’, I don’t think fear sells. Fear does the opposite: it tends to grip and freeze. And, the way things are going, unless there is institutional and individual change, perhaps that is what will happen… (during this upcoming Saturn-Uranus opposition?)

However, I don’t believe we can blame the world’s woes on a single astrological conjunction – there are always combinations. But I think there can be certain significations, and I would like to think that both Jupiter and Pluto going into Capricorn could bring elements of responsibility to the global powers to make this world a better place, as opposed to one that is purely for profit and power. I will, as always, remain optimistic…

That Jupiter, associated with the bigger picture, higher learning and abstract concepts, is currently in his own sign, points to a time where we can deepen our wisdom; with Pluto, it may be that the more obsessive side of human nature will wise up – would that be too much to ask? (Although, my money is how this conjunction will be remembered for bringing a big research project to light: such as dark energy, or some life threatening disease.)

Re Eris and Sedna, I do find it interesting how these, and the naming of these celestial symbols came into being, and what it could all mean. But that is another thread, for another time perhaps.

Quote:
The big “stir” of 1987 was the Uranus-Saturn-GC configuration. Then the galactic centre became rather unexciting and got little press until Pluto came along, with Jupiter added to make it extra exciting. Over the past year the galactic centre has become very famous indeed online. It will fade.


Change is our only constant.

The 87 “stir” was not big, however, just a few quiet rumblings. The Saturn Uranus conjunction dominated – GC had yet to be confirmed as having the black hole! That no one apparently gave GC much notice in terms of the mundane after that was, perhaps, because nothing came to conjunct it (apart from Jupiter in 95, as per my previous post). But recall how the money markets did crash in October 1987, Black Monday was hot on the heels of Britian’s Great Storm, when the financial capital of the worlds’ computers failed (due to not having any electricity throughout the Friday) and then, when the weekend kicked in, a veritable pack of precarious global cards came tumbling down, starting with Asia, who had no idea that London had been in the dark. Not many saw, nor have since seen this connection. Pluto was also a key player in that deeply emotional financial fiasco.

Rare conjunctions, however, are encouraged to be discussed, especially on the internet (which we may well have to thank Jupiter, when it last conjunct the GC for), which is how it should be; people need to express their thoughts - even if they are fearful – maybe some need to know that there is nothing to fear but fear itself, so they can actually do something about it? And if they can’t fix the problem, then why worry?

Also, I am not sure what you mean regarding your reference to “ouija board operators”. Or are you being critical of those drawn beyond Saturn’s threshold? It is true that people who are fearful of other planes of existence, other than this human realm, (or even those who are operating solely from an ego-base), will do themselves no favours by dabbling in occult matters. But that still does not imply there is only one way to practice astrology. So we are back to the same old argument, one that we may never agree on: that there are many different types of people in this world, who all resonate with different ways of being and, if we apply this obvious fact to astrology, it means they also practice astrology in different ways. As mentioned before, integrity counts. Having said that, I realise that the road to hell can be paved with good intentions, which may be why we are in this global mess now – although I have to question certain leaders’ integrity. But if an astrologer gives a reading in good faith, and there is a healthy rapport between querent, astrologer, and sky, (or liver entrails for that matter) the responsibility of the positive development of the divined signification is within scope.

Helpful dialogue, along with tolerance of the other - no matter how strange or dangerous one’s ego might find them, is what is needed of we are to proceed on this planet towards a loving humanity in the Aquarian Age (Yes, indeed, that old chestnut!). Besides, variety is the spice of life. (In our house we like a good curry!)

Perhaps these currently ‘hot’ degrees, around 24-29 degrees Sagittarius, might now resonate with those who have them marked by natal or event or horary planets? Anyone willing to share; or have memories of ‘87, ‘95; or indeed, any thoughts on this Jupiter-Pluto-GC conjunction?
Smile
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Frank



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I can say is, "It's an interesting time to be having a Jupiter return!"

Oh, and Hi Laura! Long time no see. Check your private messages.
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laura,

All this galactic stuff is just too vague and New Age for me, but I will do myself the favor of allowing myself to be surprised.

I don’t have any problems with a plain ol’ Jupiter-Pluto conjunction without the galactic center embellishments.
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Laura BT



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 39

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, nice guitar Frank! Wot? In Delaware? Not GR? I messaged you not so long ago – maybe you didn’t get it? Let us know how your Jupiter return goes – but maybe you won't, with secretive Pluto guarding those deep insights… here’s plying you with lots of Jupitarian luck X Thumbs up Very Happy

Right you are Kirk. Let’s not forget that Jupiter is the planet of expectations, as well as philosophy. So if nothing specific externally happens, within orb, which we are already (and I think all current the ‘dark energy’ info is pretty spot on), then we are cosmically bound to be theoretical. Laughing
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Frank



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, been in Delaware (just south of my hometown Philly) for about 2 1/2 years now. Grand Rapids economy went south just before that , so there it is.

I like that guitar too - it's one of a herd of seven, currently. At least they don't get lonely when I'm not around.

Looking forward to seeing what all that stuff brings.

I didn't receive a message. Was it here or via e-mail?

(Pardon the semi-private message everyone else.)
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have another thought for ya'll,

a whole bunch of planets in disagreement with SAturn... I think Chavez got an eaarly taste of it, and I think Bush will get More, people are getting darn tired of despots.

I think W is likely to get a hard set down son, probably with the Iran Question.

Granny.
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Laura BT



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 39

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And on a lighter Jupiter-Pluto note (if there is such a thing!): in our cinemas we now also have the release of the first in Philip Pullman's trilogy, the 'Dark Materials', stirring up catholic wrath!

Very Happy
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