Where did Rob Hand get this from?

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"Sun in the Eighth House

... Your inner self seems attracted to unusual matters related to the termination of life-death and its mysteries.

Traditional astrology indicates that near your middle age a crisis will rear its head in your life. If this period is successfully spanned you can expect a prolonged life with a gradual heightening vitality. "

I've seen this in other people's charts but I can't work out the Astrological logic behind it.

Why the crisis ? What's at it's root?

Any ideas?

H.
Yikkes!

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Where did this quote come from?
.. Your inner self [Sun]seems attracted to unusual matters [?] related to the termination of life-death and its mysteries [8th house. He is apparently associating the 8th house and mysteries as well as death or he is extrapolating from the idea that death and what happens afterwards is a mystery].

Traditional astrology [I have this feeling this was written prior to Hand's immersion in medieval astrology] indicates that near your middle age a crisis will rear its head in your life. [Progressed Sun to the MC?]If this period is successfully spanned you can expect a prolonged life with a gradual heightening vitality. "
Please provide the source and perhaps some more context.

Tom

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I've seen this in other people's charts but I can't work out the Astrological logic behind it.

Why the crisis ? What's at it's root?
The houses meanings were heavily influenced by the Sun?s daily motion. The Sun has its eastern birth in the morning and rises to culmination (adulthood) at noon. It?s riding high. Then it starts to sink into the west and becomes aware that there?s going to be an end. The Sun is having a crisis.

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The Sun's movement into the 8th House in mid to late afternoon was described by Isabel Hickey as: 'The shadows falling across the park'
Very nice! My 8th house Sun finds it real poetic-like.

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I don't know precisely what Hand meant and none of us are going to unless, and maybe not even then, we get a source and a context for this quote. I don't recall Hand writing such a cookbook-like delineation, but he may have early in his career.

True the Sun is "dying" in the 8th since by diurnal motion it is setting, but the setting, and therefore the dying, would then begin after the Sun crosses the MC and enters the 9th (unless we're using whole sign houses where this may not be true depending on the birth location) and continue into the 7th until it actually "dies" when it crosses the DSC. In fact this kind of motion is the basis of primary directions, something I'm certain Hand is aware of, but something he rarely discusses.

The quote specified a "crises" in mid life for those who have the Sun in the 8th, apparently without regard to sign. If the Sun were dying, and this "dying" connected to any manner of crises (as the text suggests) and this is related to a crises in mid-life, would the Sun in the 9th relate to a late life crises and the Sun in the 7th relate to an early life crises, or does this only apply to the Sun in the 8th and if so, why? I am curious about this, but I have none of his work that contains this quote or at least none I can find. If he wrote it at all, I think this would have come about the time of his work Horoscope Symbols. Maybe it is in there.

In what context is Hand using the words, "traditional astrology?" Valens? Cardan? Lilly? Alan Leo?

Tom

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The Sun is doing just fine in the 9th ? the ancients gave him his joy there. So he attains the top in the 10th, gets to hold on for a while and be powerful in the 9th, and then comes the reality of the 8th. I see the crisis as the awareness of the upcoming death. The awareness of mortality is a death in itself ? the death of an invincible self. It?s an awareness that I think few young people experience.

I would also prefer to know exactly and for sure where this crisis idea comes from and when it first appeared, but I think I mentioned the probable inspiration for it.

I?ve been thinking there is something to it due to personal experience (Yes, that thing to be careful with in astrology.). Actions I?ve taken (and haven?t) and decisions I?ve made (and haven?t) in the past few years have definitely created a ?before and after? division in my life. I may have made some very serious mistakes which will render the last half of life a rather grim affair ? or I did just the right thing.

My brother also has an 8th house Sun and at age 49, after a few years of strange health problems, he developed serious congestive heart failure and was forced to face the issue of mortality. He has made a good come-back, but life isn?t the same for him.

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What we've got here is an excellent example of the dangers of cookbook astrology whether delivered by a noted astrologer like Rob Hand or sun sign column written by a person of little experience.

The quote says that "traditional" astrology is the source of the idea that an 8th house Sun indicates a mid life crises of some kind.


Traditional astrology indicates that near your middle age a crisis will rear its head in your life.
There is so much wrong with this it is hard to know where to begin, which is why we'd both like some context since Rob Hand is not a hack.

First off, I've never seen anything like this in any traditional writing. That, in and of itself, doesn't mean much. I am not the last word on anything nor have I read everything, but still I would think I would have come across something like it now and then, if it were pervasive. The only thing I have come across on occasion is that an 8th house (death) Sun (life force) is an indication of an early death. Morinus brings this up now and again. It is not a slam dunk certainty, however.

The word "crises" I think is the giveaway. This is the idea of a modern astrologer as that word in this context is the type of thing that liters pop psychology, and often finds its way into astrology. Death or the threat of death is a crises, but there are other crises and everyone sooner or later confronts his or her mortality regardless of the location of his or her Sun, and they usually confront it about middle age. Again this is why I think, if Hand did make this statement, I think he made it early on. "Death," a non-arguable event, it either occurs at a particular time or it doesn't, is converted to something softer like "crises (presumably to avoid the "fatalism" of traditional astrology)" and "crises" can be anything from one's own death to the threat of death to a child or spouse. A crises can also mean perfectly healthy individual losing his or her job, or be forced to care for an aging incoherent parent, or facing the prospect of an unwanted pregnancy, an extra marital affair, etc. It's a stretch to apply all this to the 8th house. In fact "traditional astrology" would be just as likely, if not more so, to apply any physical danger to the ascendant or its ruler (see Book XXIII of Astrologia Gallica and the discussion of King Gustav Adolphus' death). In the context of what I understand to be traditional astrology, this quote does not make sense.

So unless and until we get some more information, something I'm beginning to doubt will happen, all any of us can do is guess, and one guess is as good as another.

Tom

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?Traditional? astrology is sometimes used loosely. It?s occasionally used to refer to the astrology of Pearce, Sepharial, Leo, etc. The rather casual idea being that traditional = formerly.
The word "crises" I think is the giveaway. This is the idea of a modern astrologer as that word in this context is the type of thing that liters pop psychology, and often finds its way into astrology.
So drop the word ?crisis? and change it to ?a difficult period in one?s life when intense and possibly dangerous issues must be faced?, or some such thing. Pop psychologists don?t own the idea. A traditional astrologer can talk about a crisis just as well as a modern astrologer. It?s the language of the current age. In any case, it looks like Hand is off the hook.

With the 8th house aversion to the Asc. it does seem that death and life-threatening illness would be the most likely possibilities, but I think it could be much more varied. Don?t forget that the 8th house meaning of ?Fears? goes way, way back, so the house has carried an inner, psychological element for a long time. Therefore, the 8th can indicate a confrontation with something threatening that changes life for the chart native and creates a ?before? and ?after?.
A crises can also mean perfectly healthy individual losing his or her job, or be forced to care for an aging incoherent parent, or facing the prospect of an unwanted pregnancy, an extra marital affair, etc. It's a stretch to apply all this to the 8th house. In fact "traditional astrology" would be just as likely, if not more so, to apply any physical danger to the ascendant or its ruler
Those things would all be signified by the appropriate houses and planets. They are tough times, to be sure, but they don?t need to involve the 8th house. That?s where the fear element comes in. A middle-age woman who is abandoned by her husband has the 7th house event to deal with, but much more so the longer period of terror as she goes on alone. Another woman may go through the tough time relatively quickly and is less affected psychologically. The man who gambled and whored away his 2nd house money in the merry 5th house now may be haunted by the 8th house terror of a coming old age of poverty. There?s abandonment and divorce, and there?s financial loss. Those are events. And then there?s the vision of a resulting future of solitude or poverty. That?s a crisis.

Where Did Rob Hand Get This From

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kirk,

If this if from Rob Hand then I would think he has extracted these words from the Ancient texts he has studied and translated from Latin. He had 2 co-horts working with him here - Robert Zoller and Rob Hindes (?). Latin isnt a push over!

The Ancients believed the 7th House led to the 'portals of the 8th - a most unfortunate house'. I recall reading this but cant recall just where it is from. Smile in spite of it. :-) or because of it. :)

Julie K