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role of mars in marriage
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kannan



Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 97

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experince Mars makes married live uncomgftable if badly placed especially for Taurus and libra natives.

Kannan
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astrojin wrote:
Hello,

Reminds me of Schnidt's Lecture on Meanings of Planets in Hellenistic astrology. Mars generally represents cutting and severing of all things and not just marriage.

Aries and Scorpio (both rule by Mars) are opposite to Libra and Taurus (both rule by Venus) AND their nature also also opposite (Venus - benefic, Mars - malefic), hence Venus and Mars have really opposite meanings.

Venus: principle of unification and pleasures (marriage being both of these amongst others)

Mars: principle of severing and sundering, hence means anything that cuts like sword, or divorce (sundering of relationship).



Hi, Astrojin and All!

Hello!

Valens, in the book II/III of his Anthology, says in page 6 ( translation of R. Schmidt) that another way of see the marriage is to look at the place of the marriage that is found in male and female nativities in a different way.
As the 7th place is opposite to life and is still the marriage house, Valens says that we can find the marriage place for male from Sun to Aphrodite ( because Aphodite is the destroyer of the Sun and the ruler of Libra, where the Sun has his fall), and equal amount from the AS.
To find women marriage’s place we take the distance from the Moon to Mars, since the Moon is depressed in Mar´s sign, Scorpio.
I think Valens is a genius and lived ages before Sartre the existentialist philosopher who said " my hell is the other". Valens seems to say: my dead is the otherm when he choose the opposite planet of both luminaries exaltation to represent the trigger.
Quoting him:
page 6
" For men, from the Sun to Aphodite and an equal amount from the Horoskopus;for women, from the Moon to Ares. For, Aphrodite and Ares are destroyers of both the lights because though the Sun is exalted in Aries it perishes in Libra and causes the days to lessen, and though the Moon is exalted in Taurus it is depressed in Scorpio and causes a subtraction in of its light cosmically. Aphrodite, then. will be the marriage indicator for men, while Mars will in general be the indicator for women"

best

Clelia
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1358
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clelia Romano wrote:

Valens, in the book II/III of his Anthology, says in page 6 ( translation of R. Schmidt) that another way of see the marriage is to look at the place of the marriage that is found in male and female nativities in a different way.


Dear Clelia, you really read in my mind!
Yesterday evening I was reading from Firmicus Maternus:

"27. If you wish to find the house of the wife, measure from the degree of Saturn to the degree of Venus and, beginning from the ascendant,
distribute the number among the signs. In whatever sign the last degree falls in a diurnal chart, that is the house of the spouse.......
32. If you wish to find the house of the husband in a woman's chart, if it is diurnal you must measure from Mars to Venus, in a nocturnal from Venus to Mars. Then from the ascendant distribute the number of degrees to the following signs and in whatever sign the last degree falls, that is the house of the husband. You can discover the kind of husband in the same way as the kind of wife. You must remember that in general Venus shows the wife and Mars the husband."

For the point 27. it is a method well known, but what about point 32? You have ever heard about it? I could not find it in Albiruni list. Do you have some idea from which Firmicus is taking it? For the rest he repeats Vettius Valens you quoted.
Gjiada
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gjiada wrote:
Clelia Romano wrote:

Valens, in the book II/III of his Anthology, says in page 6 ( translation of R. Schmidt) that another way of see the marriage is to look at the place of the marriage that is found in male and female nativities in a different way.


Quote:
Dear Clelia, you really read in my mind!
Yesterday evening I was reading from Firmicus Maternus:

32. If you wish to find the house of the husband in a woman's chart, if it is diurnal you must measure from Mars to Venus, in a nocturnal from Venus to Mars. Then from the ascendant distribute the number of degrees to the following signs and in whatever sign the last degree falls, that is the house of the husband. You can discover the kind of husband in the same way as the kind of wife. You must remember that in general Venus shows the wife and Mars the husband."

For the point 27. it is a method well known, but what about point 32? You have ever heard about it? I could not find it in Albiruni list. Do you have some idea from which Firmicus is taking it? For the rest he repeats Vettius Valens you quoted.
Gjiada


Hello, Gjada! Razz

There is a general agreement between the ancients respecting the marriage part.
Firmicus, Al- Biruni , Paulus Alexandrinus and Olympiodorus gave the same formula for the Part of Marriage for Men :Venus-Saturn+ASC by day and and Saturn-Venus+ASC by night .
The reverse for women.
Dorotheus ( Pentateuch,ii,2-3) is the only one saying the first one is for women and the second for men.
About your quote 32 I never read it in other source than Firmicus, but it seems Valens´ influence modified, because Valens gave importance to Mars even if only in female´s marriage .
This matter of casting Lots is a very long one so that one might think there is no end to it. I prefer to use few lots and only those which the authors are in agreement.
The important thing here is that Mars has a very old traditional source, Valens, linking it with female marriages.
My experience when I worked as a modern astrologer was that Mars was supposed to aspected the ASC or MC by secondary progression in female marriages. And I found this aspect several times.
I abandoned it as " modern stuff" when I attended Zoller´s full course. He didn´t use Mars Confused
So I became surprised to read this statement in Valens.

Thank you for Firmicus´ quote Smile !
Clelia


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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clelia Romano wrote:

About your quote 32 I never read it in other source than Firmicus, but it seems Valens´ influence modified, because Valens gave importance to Mars even if only in female´s marriage .
This matter of casting Lots is a very long one so that one might think there is no end to it. I prefer to use few lots and only those which the authors are in agreement.


This is strange, which source could have Firmicus other than the rest of astrologers? Yesterday I stood up from my bed to check Albiruni, and I could not find it.

In the journal of Cida, the Italian Astrological Association I found an article about sinastry according Ptolemy, better according CieloeTerra and there they use some lots for marriage, especially Venus/Saturn one.
Tomorrow I will see my friend (the one who made the research about dead children) and I'll try to ask him; I'm not even sure which source they follow for lots, I'm not sure Ptolemy talks about Part of Marriage.
But I was curios about the one from Firmicus because I discovered a strange coincidence.
Ciao,
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kannan



Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 97

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello

The method given to locate the houses of wife and husband in a chart forms interesting reading. Can any one of the above explain this phenomenon with a practical example for a better understanding

Kannan
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1358
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kannan wrote:
hello

The method given to locate the houses of wife and husband in a chart forms interesting reading. Can any one of the above explain this phenomenon with a practical example for a better understanding

Kannan


Firmicus and the other astrologers just consider the lot of Marriage accoding several formula they give, see for example here:
http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php

Firmicus explain it very clearly:

When you have found the house of the wife, first look at the sign, whether it is fixed, double, or tropical. Next observe in what house the ruler of the sign is located. Third, observe this same house: who is the ruler of its terms and to what extent it is aspected by benefic or malefic planets. For when benefic planets, located in favorable houses, with no debility, following the power of their condition possess that same house, they willjoin the natives in harmonious bonds with wives who are rich and famous.

On the other hand in Professor Giuseppe Bezza group, they follow mostly Ptolemy, so they use Moon for the wife and Sun for husband, according Tetrabiblos. In sinastry they consider too Part of Fortune for men and Part of Spirit for women.
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kannan



Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 97

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the site. But the problem is which of the planets , Sun and Moon or Mars and Venus , should be considered for arrivimg at the location of the house. Unless we are specific prediction of an event will meet with difficulties.

Kannan
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1358
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kannan wrote:
Thanks for the site. But the problem is which of the planets , Sun and Moon or Mars and Venus , should be considered for arrivimg at the location of the house. Unless we are specific prediction of an event will meet with difficulties.

Kannan


I think just every astrologer had his favourite one.
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