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Rectified horoscope of the U.S.A.

 
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Andries H. Cats



Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 92

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:53 pm    Post subject: Rectified horoscope of the U.S.A. Reply with quote

I took from a website in the U.S.A. the time 2h17m and tested it with the Gieles minus 1 (year) progressive system.
I rectified the U.S.A. horoscope definitely with the below progressive aspects as samples and other interesting aspects not mentioned here:
Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on 7th december 1941.
7-Dec-1941 027,02'22 Capricornus Plu 180 mutual MC
16-Dec-1941 027,03'39 Virgo Nep 60 mutual MC
16-Dec-1941 024,28'07 Sagittarius Sun 150 Merc
And the transits:
6-Dec-1941 027,40'33 Taurus Ura 90 Black Moon
7-Dec-1941 +16,24'00 Sat # Moon
9-Dec-1941 027,33'31 Taurus Ura 120 Plu
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Andries H. Cats



Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 92

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to mention the rectified local time which is: 2h16m41s a.m.
You can see the horoscopedrawing on my website: www.andriescats.nl
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Andries H. Cats



Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 92

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A cover letter, dated in Philadelphia, July 6, 1776, was attached to the Declaration of Independence, [1] as it was sent to the British authorities, wherein John Hancock states:

"Gentlemen, Altho it is not possible to forsee the consequences of human actions, yet it is nevertheless a duty we owe ourselves and posterity in all our public councils to decide in the best manner we are able and to trust the event to That Being who governs both causes and events, so as to bring about his own determinations.

Impressed with this sentiment, and at the same time fully convinced that our affairs will take a more favorable turn, The Congress have judged it necessary to dissolve all connection between Great Britain and the American Colonies, and to declare them free and independent States as you will perceive by the enclosed Declaration, which I am directed to transmit to you."

6-Jul-1776 001,08'16 Cancer Ven 0 C2 (progressive aspect)
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Andries H. Cats



Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 92

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The U.S.A. horoscope continued.
Assasination John F. Kennedy (Kennedy has on 17 november 1963 the transit uranus 45 degrees MC and this is the date of the assasination warning).
Progressive aspects:
(8-Nov-1960 013,43'37 Capricornus Sun 0 Pars: John F. Kennedy wins the presidentelection).
21-Nov-1963 -22,51'26 C--3 # Sun
22-Nov-1963 012,44'13 Capricornus C--3 180 Sun (JFK assasinationdate)
Transits:
17-Nov-1963 013,43'37 Cancer Drac 180 Pars
17-Nov-1963 014,33'15 Sagittarius Ven 60 MC
17-Nov-1963 -23,16'11 Ven # Jup
17-Nov-1963 013,59'30 Virgo Plu 180 C-11
17-Nov-1963 -23,32'03 Mars # Mars
17-Nov-1963 014,47'19 Sagittarius Ven 60 Sat
17-Nov-1963 -21,42'25 Merc # C--3
17-Nov-1963 -21,42'41 Merc # Asc
17-Nov-1963 -21,44'19 Merc # Ura
22-Nov-1963 008,53'44 Sagittarius Merc 180 Ura
22-Nov-1963 009,06'35 Sagittarius Merc 135 C-12
22-Nov-1963 020,57'41 Sagittarius Ven 180 Mars
22-Nov-1963 009,28'07 Sagittarius Merc 135 Merc
22-Nov-1963 029,47'19 Scorpio Sun 45 Sat
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Frank



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A signing or approval of the USA Declaration of Indepence in the middle of the night is impossible due to historical first-hand accounts.
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Tom
Moderator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3438
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While freely admitting that the various July 4, 1776 charts seem to work at times, looking for historical evidence to determine what time the document was officially ratified on July 4 is silly. It wasn't ratified on July 4 at all. The short version is this. On June 28, (all dates 1776) Jefferson introduced his draft of a declaration of independence from Great Britain. Corrections and changes were made and the document was approved as written on July 2. The draft was re-written, a few more minor changes made and re-dated on July 4, the date the Continental Congress approved the final draft. At this point there are two approvals one on July 2 and one on July 4, but neither has been ratified.

The only person to sign the document on July 4 was John Hancock, and he assuredly did not sign it in the middle of the night. After he signed it, the document was sent off to the printer. The required number of delegates' signatures was not met until Aug 2. New York wouldn't sign at first. It wasn't all about them. Some things never change.

So the formal declaration or announcement of the decision to break all ties with Great Britain was approved on July 2, 1776, formalized on July 4, and ratified on August 2. The actual decision to declare Independence occurred well before June 1776. Therefore, the historical record supports none of the July 4 charts.

Tom

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Frank



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,

I'll have to disagree with you on a few points here.

1. The DoI was NOT approved on July 2nd - that was the Lee Resolution.

2. The only signatures required on the DoI were Hancock's and Continental Congress Secretary Charles Thomson as witness. Both signed on July 4. The DoI was later signed by many others - even years later on ceremonial occasions. Signing of the DoI wasn't pivotal - adoption by the Continental Congress was.

According to the National Archives Web site, "The process of revision continued through all of July 3 and into the late morning of July 4. Then, at last, church bells rang out over Philadelphia; the Declaration had been officially adopted."

http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/declaration_history.html

I have a request in with the Archives to provide me with a list of primary sources to support this statement.

While I'm not convinced that the DoI chart is the operant chart for the USA, it behooves us to at least get that chart right.

I wrote up quick study of the various USA chart a few years ago (http://www.frankstar.com/usastudy.htm), and continue to do research on the subject.
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Tom
Moderator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3438
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1. The DoI was NOT approved on July 2nd - that was the Lee Resolution.


Virtually the same thing.

Quote:
Lee Resolution: "Resolved: That these united Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States, that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved."'


That about says it all. THE DOI gave reasons for the above sentiments. The sentiments didn't change.

Quote:
2. The only signatures required on the DoI were Hancock's and Continental Congress Secretary Charles Thomson as witness. Both signed on July 4. The DoI was later signed by many others - even years later on ceremonial occasions. Signing of the DoI wasn't pivotal - adoption by the Continental Congress was.


And herein lies the problem. When was adoption? July 2? July 4? Aug 2? Clearly the Lee Resolution stated what was already decided when Jefferson wrote the original draft on June 28. What was to be said had been adopted. They were just deciding how to say it. The Continental Congress decided that the United Colonies were no longer part of Great Britain. The formal adoption may have been on July 4, but without the required signatures the DOI was dead in the water. So Aug 2?

Then there is this problem: the USA declared Independence from Great Britain - this is a fact that cannot be denied regardless of date and time. By using an Independence Day chart for the birth of the nation, aren't we missing a lot? THe USA is a lot more than her Indendence and therefore the Indpendence chart cannot tell us all we might want to know.

The Official title for what is now called the Declaration of Independence is:
"The Unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America." It wasn't unanimous until long after July 4. It is also true that John Adams expected Independence Day to be celebrated on July 2, not July 4.

Finally note the language of the Lee Resolution: Thirteen free and Independent States. They joined forces to fight Great Briain. Other than that they were barely a nation. They were saying they were free from England and each other, They did not join together solidly as a nation in 1776. That wouldn't come for another 13 years, and it took a civil war to decide the differences that existed when the Consitution was adopted.

I would argue that there is no one moment when the USA became the USA, and if there is, it was long after 1776. The July 4 charts are useful, but pinpointing a time when this or that signature was afixed (and where?) to this or that document doesn't seem like enough.

I was not aware of Charles Thompson's signature on July 4. Was he a voting delegate or simply a witness to Hancock's signature? Still it begs the question. Two signatures were not enough to ratify the document.

I should state that I'm not persuaded that any of the July 4 charts are definitive, nor are any of the other suggested charts: Battle of Bunker Hill, Battle of Lexington and Concord, etc. Frankly if we are going to try to predict Presidential elections doesn't it make more sense to use a chart for the adoption of the document that created the Presidency and not the DOI? That is The US Constitution, a far more influential document on the US over the years than the DOI.

Just some thoughts.

Thanks for the information. Good stuff.

Tom
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