Hierarchy of Testimonies

1
I originally brought this up in the Football Predictions thread, but thought it might be useful to start a separate thread on the subject. My suggestion was:

1. Bodily emplacement
2. Bodily aspects
3. Antiscial emplacement
4. Antiscial aspects

Obviously this draws heavily on John Frawley's testimonies, but it's not always totally clear which testimonies carry most weight, especially when we have mixed testimonies.

There has already been some discussion on this, but rather than trying to copy and paste the various comments here, it would be easier for those who are interested to have a look at what's been said so far.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... &start=135

2
Thank you for putting this up as a separate thread, I've been meaning to comment on this.

Andrew made an interesting response as to his preference for a testimony which may be worth putting on this thread.

I'll start on point 1

1. Bodily emplacement
(sounds like a chapter for a book)!

What are we looking for?
a-Position of ruling planet of asc/desc
- Which house: 1st or 7th
- cardinal house and conjunct the MC/IC(?)-Not so sure about this yet

b- Planets in 1st and 7th

Beyond that its planet strength and aspects.

3
Thanks for responding, John.

By bodily emplacement I mean significators (i.e. lords 1,4,7,10) or Moon conj an angle. Then there's JF's stuff about planets controlling or being controlled, depending which side of the angle they're on. I'm still dubious about planets on the cadent side, unless they're very close, but this is the kind of thing that needs testing.

JF ignores dignities and receptions, but that doesn't mean we have to. Personally I threw these out long ago but again, people must go by their own observations and experience.

4
I'm holding back on the JF book for the moment.

I'll keep an open mind about the importance of L4 and 10.

There are two games this weekend, Wigan/Everton and Liverpool/Villa where planets are conjunct the ascendant on the 12th house side(within 1 degree-(within 20sec)), retrograde and heading back to the ascendant!!

The slight difference appears to be your interest in a planet on an angle(cardinal side) and my questioning of planets within the house of the opposing teams(1st and 7th) regardless of whether they are conjunct the angle(possibly the moon in the Wigan/Everton match).

5
The Moon in an angular house worked very well last season, although the 4th was often unreliable. However, this season it hardly seems to be working at all :-? So now I'm only considering it when it is very close to the angle.

7
When discussing the various charts we appear to be looking at two issues, the strength of the respective teams and the result.

Following up the Lords of the angular houses bodily emplacement line, what is being suggested when either L1,L4,L7,L10 or moon is conjunct the 4th house cusp on the cardinal side.

Is this used to jump to a decision on the outcome or is it a factor to determine the strength of a participant?

Andrew, I believe the Moon was in Gemini at the Capricorn ingress.

9
John,
I think bodily emplacement is the most important factor, which is why I listed it as number 1. Consider the Wigan/Everton game where Mercury (L1) was conj MC (angular side). Although there were other testimonies (aspects), we could have ignored these. Obviously it was important to get the Asc allocation correct in that one :roll:

I'm moving more and more towards not considering antiscial testimonies at all if we have bodily testimonies. In the Newcastle/Bolton game the antiscial aspect was a red herring. I'm even thinking PoF testimonies are minor in this particular scheme. PoF was a red herring in the Liverpool/Villa game, where VOC Moon said it all and I should have stopped there.

Interesting about the Moon being "out of shape", Andrew :)

10
Consider the Wigan/Everton game where Mercury (L1) was conj MC (angular side). Although there were other testimonies (aspects), we could have ignored these. Obviously it was important to get the Asc allocation correct in that one
As you say, we'd first agree who gets the AC in order to work out hierarchy. The odds for this game were: Wigan(2.75) and Everton(2.25). As Wigan were the home team and Everton were not odds-on, I gave Wigan the AC.

11
As Wigan were the home team and Everton were not odds-on, I gave Wigan the AC.
So did I because I couldn't work out the colours beforehand. But as I said on the predictions thread, since Wigan wear blue which is Jupiter, they should have got the Desc. It was the same in the Everton/Chelsea game - Everton, blue, Jupiter. The bodily aspect (Mercury) worked but the antiscial aspect (Jupiter) was a red herring - again!

12
Ficina,

Subject to ongoing issue of who is the ascendant, we are now looking for charts that have planets in cardinal houses.

The two retrograde planets for the Wigan/Everton and Liverpool/Villa games appear not to be carrying any weight.
The issue of the ascendant is the main query for Wigan/Everton(Mercury on the MC noted) and the VoC Moon outweighs the retro saturn on the ascendant for Liverpool.

Hierarchy of testimonies.(revision 1)

1- Determine who is the ascendant.
2-Bodily emplacement.