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Hillary D. Rodham Clinton: candidate U.S. presidency 2009.
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Andries H. Cats



Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 92

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Hillary D. Rodham Clinton: candidate U.S. presidency 2009. Reply with quote

Can you be successful when you have the transit saturnus 60 degrees mercurius in twelfh house and ruler of your M.C.?
Hillary D. Rodham Clinton has this aspect on the date of inauguration: 20 january 2009.
You can see this and more of her progressive aspects on my website: www.andriescats.nl.
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Mark
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can you be successful when you have the transit saturnus 60 degrees mercurius in twelfh house and ruler of your M.C.?


Maybe not but then not everyone would agree with that chart.

http://apotelesmatics.com/2007/03/13/hillary-clintons-birth-chart/
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SGFoxe



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a 7:35 or so AM birth time -- put 25/26 Leo on MC -- so little synastry between the clinton's -- marriage a definite career move -- putting his sun at her mc & his moon in her 7th makes sense to me.

the eclipse of 16aug08 (bills b-day) & hypothetically her mc/nadir right before the convention should be ballistic

sonja foxe
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Tom
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the eclipse of 16aug08 (bills b-day)


I believe Bill Clinton's birthday is August 19 (1946 - 8:51 am Hope Arkansas).

Tom
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Minderwiz



Joined: 10 Jul 2004
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Location: Wigan, Lancs

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if Hillary is taking the oath on 20th January she has already been successful!

To make the 20th January a meaningful date in the context of the post then she must have won the election in November and to be in the contest in November she must have gained the nomination in August.

If we are going to judge her success then attention must be paid to these dates first. If she gets to the inauguration on 20th January, she has the best part of 4 years to overcome any intial problems.

It might also be better to use either event charts or horary charts rather than personal transits, even if the birth time is correct. Event charts and horary charts are cast for specific events or explicit questions, transits do not proclaim which events they are indicative of.
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Tom
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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
transits do not proclaim which events they are indicative of.


During the 2004 campaign an awful lot of astrologers predicted a John Kerry victory based simply on transits to his natal chart. It was something of a PR disaster for astrology and one would think that only four years later, astrologers would have learned from the experience. There are two general birth times for Hillary Clinton floating around (8:00 am and 8:00 pm) plus various rectifications. This in itself is telling.

We also need to keep in mind that the election cycle is a series of contests. Contests require at least two people. If candidate A has a chart that appears to promise something grand we cannot leave it at that. We must also look at candidate B's chart to see if that chart promises something even more grand at the same time. None of this stuff occurs in a vacuum.

Tom

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Ed F



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep - cannot consider one candidate's chart in a vacuum. It is particularly bad this year with the unreliability of their charts, though. I predicted Bush last time - not that I wanted to.
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a particular time for Hillary's birth that has obtained more acceptance amongst astrologers, or is the jury still out?

PS I have posted details of our local groups annual conference in the NEWS forum.
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SGFoxe



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I believe Bill Clinton's birthday is August 19 (1946 - 8:51 am Hope Arkansas). "

Tom -you are of course correct, my brain needs a retread -- the rectification for HRC I did some years ago was closely reasoned I had 25/26 Leo on MC -- something that at first glance in the Yale Library, HRodham would have had a almost visceral response to the career potential of WJRC

the Aug 16 eclipse -- at 24+ will conjunct by a degree or so, her hypothetical MC, and if her campaign is still rolling along, should collapse it.
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yuzuru



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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and one would think that only four years later, astrologers would have learned from the experience.


Well, of coure they do not !

I sit and laugh seeing the all powerful "rectificators", also known as "everyone has a different oppinion". Besides that, everyone is doing so "profound" analysis based on charts that they donīt know if are right or wrong... Predictions, please ?

Regulus astrology gives an tentative time of 10:53 pm for Hillary, way off the most used charts... but R.A used very few events in this rectification
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Tom
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Yuzuru,

Opinions are like noses, everybody has one. Here's mine: I like Regulus Astrology's birth time for Hillary. It gives Leo rising and she seems to fit some of the physical characteristics of that sign. It puts her MC in the 9th sign and its ruler in the first (fame coming to the native), and it puts the Moon at Aries, the place Noel Tyl says shows the desire to be number one. That fits even though I rarely quote Noel. True there were few events, but we work with what we've got. He used the same method for Presidents and in those cases he had many events. But the fact that I like it hardly guarantees its accuracy. The two most common times for Hillary are 8:00 am and 8:00 PM. On-the-hour times are always suspect.

The reverse situation is also instructive. I remember when someone claimed to have a birth certificate for Ronald Reagan and the time was confirmed by his daughter, the astrological world swooned. Why the time given didn't give us the chart of Satan incarnate! How could it possibly be correct? One outraged astrologer went so far as to say the birth month and date were wrong. Reagan just had to be a Scorpio, and so he rectified his birth data and sure enough, he was! A collective sigh of relief was heard when it was discovered that the birth certificate cited for Reagan had no time on it. Whew! For a while they thought they would have to treat the 40th President as though he were human. We still have the daughter's testimony. Where did she get that information?

If I recall correctly, the big deal about John Kerry was transiting Venus over his MC (uncertain MC to boot). I mean just because the transit occurred on election day or near it, is that all it takes? Evidently it takes quite a bit more. I guess we can see what we want to see, when we look hard enough.

One of the reasons hindsight astrology works so well is that we know what we are looking for. From that point on it is just a matter of locating the symbolism we need. This may well be very accurate, but no matter how we look at it, we're still projecting our own beliefs on the chart. Tell someone he is looking at Hitler's chart and they won't tell you he was a frustrated artist or architect. An astrologer can and will project his own political leanings on political figures when reading a chart or doing a rectification. This doesn't mean he is invariably wrong. If he has a solid historical foundation, he could well be correct more often than incorrect. It only means he is human, and we need to look at the rectified charts with a pinch of skepticism.

Tom
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Reagan just had to be a Scorpio, and so he rectified his birth data and sure enough, he was!"

I have noticed that: when astrologer likes politician, rectified map is usually libra (charisma), taurus or gemini (curiosity). If astrologer doesnīt like politician, he is always scorpio !

What doesnīt look very professional to me.
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robin



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen a 8.02am chart for Hilary doing the rounds which seems a bit unrounded to me.

Oddly when I thought about her chart, before looking to see what was availiable a few mths ago, I had it in my head she had a big 12th house. So I must have seen this more recent 8.02 chart many years ago.

It may have been at the CPA where it's less likely someone would put a chart up which they weren't pretty certain was accurate. After all people are paying ?50 a day for a seminar.

Food for thought!
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Last edited by robin on Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tom
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have noticed that: when astrologer likes politician, rectified map is usually libra (charisma), taurus or gemini (curiosity). If astrologer doesnīt like politician, he is always scorpio !


Good point. I've seen the same thing done with Hitler's chart. No one likes the idea that he might have Libra rising so just add to the birth time until Scorpio rises. No one is 100% positive of his time of birth, but even with Libra rising (Hitler was charismatic. Charisma is not a synonym for virtue) they neglect the battered ASC ruler Venus.

Maybe Hitler was a Scorpio rising, but Libra is not out of the question. Forcing the chart for political reasons has a long history. Gadbury did it. But it is more than unprofessional; it is dishonest.

Tom
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robin



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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of him having Libra rising.

Hasn't Libra always been known as the least human side of the zodiac, and therefore most prone to cruelty.

no animal or human symbolism.

Puzzled, is this a traditional astrology take on Libra/Scorpio

robin
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Last edited by robin on Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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