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Skyscript Astrology Forum

too difficult a chart
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fish
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: too difficult a chart Reply with quote

As an astrologer, I give consultations rather than giving written reports.

I endeavor to 'teach' clients their birth charts, and encourage them to make their own analyses and draw their own conclusions. I expect the client will go off and study his or her chart in greater depths.

I also look into the coming 'period' of their lives and make some 'predictions'.

Recently, i had a client whose chart is simply too 'difficult' for me. i find myself almost unable to talk the client through his chart, and with saturn in virgo and uranus in pisces for the next 'period'... i am afraid the task is beyond me.

i would be most grateful if wiser heads than mine had a look at his chart and gave me some advice; not so much in the actual interpretation of the chart (Though, yes please!) but more in how i begin to pick something like this apart, especially when confronted by a barrage overlapping transits.

the chart in question is

04-mar-1965 2:45pm, Glasgow, Scotland.

Thanks in advance

jws
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Ed F



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 301
Location: Ipswich, MA USA

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about other people (though I can guess), but every once in a while I come across a chart that's just not right for me to interpret. Pass it along to another astrologer.
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Julie K



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 378
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:03 pm    Post subject: DIFFICULT CHART Reply with quote

JWS,

The Eclipses have been hitting this chart over the past few years, Virgo Pisces 2nd/8th axis and 3rd/9th axis. Self worth and value opposes other peoples values, and money issues.

Jupiter in 10th opposes Neptune in 4th and all other planets are at the bendings - square the nodes, so the individuals life must have many challenges. Do you know why they want a reading?

Julie K
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Arihant



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 66
Location: INDIA

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Julie , if anyone has to analyse this chart , he has to make it individually at astro-dienst's or so...Can't it be posted somewhere & with a link mentioned here, & you just click & then can draw your conclusions...that way it save precious time of others following you , in the thread!..or hope some better way be devised...

regards!
Arihant
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Julie K



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 378
Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: DIFFICULT CHART Reply with quote

Arihant,

I use Solar Fire. Charts can be e-mailed to others if they have Solar Fire. I've never used Astrodienst - sorry.

Julie K
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Arihant



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 66
Location: INDIA

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is Solar Fire ? ( in your context , Julie)

Is it a web-site , messenger services , chat-console or some chart making method, all i know is , that it can't bea brand name for a new-microwave!
Do tell me !
I am excited to know/ see this 'Solar Fire Chart' , do you think , you can copy /paste & email it to at :devarihant@bsnl.in...for dousing my curiosity sake! so reply soon !

regards,
Arihant
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Julie K



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 378
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:36 am    Post subject: Too Difficult a Chart Reply with quote

Arihant,

Solar Fire is the name of an Astrology Program for computers to draw up charts and this program covers many different styles of charts and other things such as Fixed Stars, Solar Maps.etc.

Solar Fire was developed in South Australia some years ago now and has become highly recognised software around the World for Astrologers, both Professionals and hobbyists alike. It is very user friendly software indeed. Cool

Maybe you could source info from www.astrolab.com - try this address.

Unos Salos Vistas.

Julie k
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Papretis



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Finland

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A new version of Solar Fire has arrived, Solar Fire Gold. This time you can download a trial verson for free here http://www.esotech.com.au/products/solarfire_gold.html . The trial version contains all the features, but you can make charts only between years 1935-1940.

As a lover of Solar Fire, I was a bit disappointed with the new version, there's these new planets, Eris, Sedna etc. but no improvements with traditional methods. I would have hoped for more primary directions, zodiacal directions etc. - well, there's a lot of things they could have put there instead of these fancy colour prints for clients. Clearly they're not searching for traditional customers.

But I'm happy that Ed F. put here http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=25032&highlight=#25032 a link to his free primary directions program, it's simple and nice. Thank you, Ed!
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Ed F



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 301
Location: Ipswich, MA USA

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome!
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed, I use your program, but it has different values of directions listed in Janus and in Solar Fire. Could you put in your page more information about the actual calculations that are done ?

That way the user have more knowledge of what each program is really doing.

Thanks, Yuzuru
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Ed F



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 301
Location: Ipswich, MA USA

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I use the methods and notation given in Rumen Kolev's booklets Primary Directions I & II.

All directions are calculated by proportional points on the declination circles of the promissor and significator. Mundo directions are done with the latitudes of the bodies involved. Zodiacal directions are done using the ecliptic intersects of the bodies and points, and aspects are take on the eclipitic, rather than in mundo measure as in the former.

The default coordinate system is conventional: geocentric apparent coordinates. Apparent and true topocentric coordinates can also be selected.

Probably it's best to ask specific questions - the results of AstroFrames match those of Kolev's Placidus program insofar as I've tested. The problem I have with both Janus and SF is that there appears to be little way to determine what they do at all. In fairness, Mark G. of Astrology House has forwarded to me a short article by Curt Manwaring that he says is the method Janus uses. I haven't had time to look into it so far.

If you think you see an error, let me know and I'll look into it. Anthony Louis recently found one that was partially a nomenclature issue, but for which I changed the program for consistency with others.

- Ed
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Ed F



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 301
Location: Ipswich, MA USA

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yuzuru,

The following is the guts of the primary directions calculations I use. Long and Lat are actually right ascension and declination respectively (ie equatorial coordinates). AD is ascensional difference for a given declination circle; UMD is upper meridian distance (in right ascension). The promissors and significators are either points with latitude or their ecliptic intercepts as I mentioned in the previous message:

-- Determine primary arc. This is independent of whether latitude
-- is used for zodiacal and mundo directions, as the proper
-- coordinates of either the body or its zodiacal projection are
-- passed in the arguments.
function Primary_Arc (Promissor,Significator : Coord_2D)
return Normal_UMD_Range is

-- Ascensional difference of promissor
AD_P : Normal_UMD_Range := AD (Promissor.Lat);

-- Upper meridian distance of promissor
UMD_P : Normal_UMD_Range := Promissor.Long - RAMC;

-- Ascensional difference of significator
AD_S : Normal_UMD_Range := AD (Significator.Lat);

-- Upper meridian distance of significator
UMD_S : Normal_UMD_Range := Significator.Long - RAMC;

-- Proportional point on primary path of the promissor
PP : Normal_UMD_Range;
begin
if Above_Horizon (Significator) then
PP := (90.0 + AD_P) * UMD_S / (90.0 + AD_S);
else
if UMD_S < 0.0 then
-- West
PP := - 180.0 + (90.0 - AD_P) * (180.0 + UMD_S) / (90.0 - AD_S);
else
-- East
PP := 180.0 - (90.0 - AD_P) * (180.0 - UMD_S) / (90.0 - AD_S);
end if;
end if;

return Long_Float (PP) - Long_Float (UMD_P);
end Primary_Arc;

The arc is then divided by the user-selected key to determine a date for the direction to go exact.

Hope that helps,

- Ed

ps, these routines are called from the above:

-- Determine whether a pair of equatorial coordinates is above the horizon.
-- Depends on globals "RAMC" and "Geo_Lat".
function Above_Horizon (Eq : Coord_2D) return Boolean is
-- Distance in RA from eastern horizon intersect on the equator
HD : Long_Float := Horizon_Distance (Eq.Long);
Result : Long_Float :=
Cos (Geo_Lat, 360.0) * Sin (HD, 360.0) * Cos (Eq.Lat, 360.0) -
Sin (Geo_Lat, 360.0) * Sin (Eq.Lat, 360.0);
begin
return Result < 0.0;
end Above_Horizon;

-- Ascensional difference for an arbitrary declination.
-- Depends on global "Tan_Lat".
function AD (Declination : Long_Float) return Normal_UMD_Range is
Result : Long_Float :=
Arcsin (Tan (Declination, 360.0) * Tan_Lat, 360.0);
begin
return Normal_UMD_Range (Result);
end AD;

-- Distance of a point from the east point on the equator expressed in
-- the range -180.0 < HD <180>= 360.0 then
EP := EP - 360.0;
end if;

HD := RA - EP;

-- Normalize to range -180 .. 180
if HD > 180.0 then
HD := HD - 360.0;
elsif HD <= -180.0 then
HD := HD + 360.0;
end if;

-- Ensure in range
pragma Assert (-180.0 < HD and HD <= 180.0, "HD out of range");
return HD;
end Horizon_Distance;
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The problem I have with both Janus and SF is that there appears to be little way to determine what they do at all.


Yeah, same here.

Quote:
If you think you see an error, let me know and I'll look into it. Anthony Louis recently found one that was partially a nomenclature issue, but for which I changed the program for consistency with others.


No, no error that I know of... but is good to know exactly what the program is calculating !

Thank you very much for your trouble. May I suggest that you would copy this instructions to the home page of the program ?
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Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com
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Ed F



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 301
Location: Ipswich, MA USA

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The actual sources are there for download.
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, sorry, it missed me, my fault
thanks again
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My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com
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