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Kosovo declaration of independence

 
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sasha_i



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Bucuresti

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 am    Post subject: Kosovo declaration of independence Reply with quote

I thought it might be interesting to have a look at the chart of the new country Kosovo

But first we have to decide what the relevant chart for this new state is

I manage to gather here some moments, and we should see what is the one that we are looking for:

Prime minister Thaci presents to the Parliament the declaration of independence
Hour 15 11 date 17 feb 2008 place Pristina (UT-1)

The Parliament of Kosovo adopts the declaration of independence
Hour 15 49 date 17 feb 2008 place Pristina (UT-1)

The declaration is signed by the members of the Parliament
Hour 17 00 date 17 feb 2008 place Pristina (UT-1)

Parliament adopts the flag of the state
Hour 17 05 date 17 feb 2008 place Pristina (UT-1)

The source of informations used :
http://www.kosovapress.com/ks/index.php?cid=2,26&date=2008-02-17&PHPSESSID=5abb1afce4aee58299d77dedc89731db
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Papretis



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Finland

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think the "The Parliament of Kosovo adopts the declaration of independence Hour 15 49 date 17 feb 2008 place Pristina (UT-1)" moment might be the most decisive. That was the moment they showed in the TV news, at least here in Finland. The clock was running on the corner of the screen (convenient for us astrologers!)
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sasha_i



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Bucuresti

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Papretis:
Quote:
moment might be the most decisive


First of all I would like to tell you that I also incline to retain the moment of the adaptation of declaration.

But to speculate I could say:

1. the process of formation could be considered as definite at the moment of signing of the declaration .

As a contra argument to the first opinion I would say that we can’t talk about a state in the fullness of the term until it is generally recognized as a new state by the world community .
So from this point of view I would say that we should not take in consideration the moment of the signing of declaration

2. the process of formation started with the presentation of the declaration of the independence.

Here I have some doubts. I wouldn’t ban out these moment so easy.
Because is the first manifestly act of the new state, the moment when the province by the words of the governor of that province expressed the willing to become a state also asking the Parliament to adopt the declaration of independence (so we could say that in this moment the prime minister started the process).
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LeeLu



Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Toronto

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are both wheels. The recognition of an independent state takes time, recognition by the other countries is at different times and from many countries this recognition might never come (and will never come), so I would use either the declaration or the signing time.

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LeeLu



Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Toronto

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to try to give some comments for the declaration chart...
The chart doesn’t look very promising. The Sun ruler of people is placed in the sign of its detriment in the 8th house. I’ll take the 7th house to represent Serbia since it is considered, by the Albanian majority in Kosovo, to be the main enemy (from which they separated). Saturn is retrograde in Virgo showing Serbia’s general weakness and inability to act constructively in this matter. Both significators are conjunct the nodes showing gain for Kosovo Albanians and loss for Serbia. However, Saturn is in mutual reception with Mercury, ruler of 2nd representing Serbia’s influence and claim over Kosovo’s material status (national whealth and natural resources). Saturn is also in mixed reception with Venus, ruler of 3rd representing Serbia’s influence over Kosovo’s complete infrastructure (Serbia had built most of it over decades). Mars, ruler of the 9th house of foreign countries, although weak, only in its term, is in 11th house of friends and trine Sun showing general friendly attitude and support and recognition by a number of countries (among them US which has a huge military base Bondsteel in Kosovo), but the support is not overwhelming worldwide. Moon is dignified but weakly placed on the cusp of 12th house and opposite Jupiter in fall, inflated hopes but not attainable, or maybe not in the long run?

Interesting thing is that the Sun will, by solar arc direction, change sign indicating a significant change in attitude of the Kosovo people. Since the Sun is entering a sign of Pisces ruled by expansive Jupiter maybe the Kosovo people would wish to expand the territory? In approximately 7 years Sun will oppose Saturn ruler of 7th, a new confrontation with Serbia or some other country in the region? This opposition can resurrect the questions about violated international laws and treaties etc...
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sasha_i



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Bucuresti

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks LeeLu for your interesting contribution.

My preliminary approach:

As you I took in consideration the chart of the adoption of declaration of independence.
I use mainly whole sign house system, additionally porphyry.

First thing that came in my mind when I looked at the chart of this moment was the powerful influence of Saturn.

It’s a day chart so I looked at Sun as a significator of the chart and, surprise, the lord of Sun sign is Saturn, the term lord is Mars (a separating trine between Mars and Sun) .
Saturn is in the second house, oriental, retrograde, and yes it is in a relation called generosity with Mercury the lord of its sign, in sect, in opposition by degree with Sun (out of signs this opposition).

All in all I would say that the predominance of Saturn is as a prophetic destiny for this part of the world (in my opinion the whole region is under the influence of Saturn, and this can be seen in the charts of the important moments of the countries from this region), and also unfortunately not quite the benefic one. It signifies poverty, struggle for a material status, resources that won’t come so easily (or maybe supporters?).

The relation of Saturn with Mercury signifies some kind of relation of the state, or involvement in a dispute (Mercury retrograde). Probably this is going to bring some advantages because it brings in the public attention the aims of the country, its interests. The future will show how much use will come from this (the signs of planets are in no relation, in aversion so hardly any good effect on long term).
Emphasizes on the seven house represents in my opinion the importance of negotiations in the future of this state, the necessity to find allies.
A good sign is the term ruler Mars from the eleven house (Mars being the ruler of 9 house), maybe a country with a Gemini influence (Mars is in Gemini).

There are other factors involved in this chart but I have to make some real research not simple hints.
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Draco



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 176
Location: England.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The declaration is signed by the members of the Parliament
Hour 17 00 date 17 feb 2008 place Pristina (UT-1)


I would go for this horoscope, as the fact that the signing occured upon the hour suggests that this event was planned to take place at this specific time, hence there was a deliberate direction of concious energies on the part of those concerned for the official statement of the emergence of the nation to take place at this forecasted time, as opposed to the other events which appear to have fallen out at random times which were unforecasted and not planned for so specifically.
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Yossarian
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeLu wrote:
The chart doesn’t look very promising. The Sun ruler of people is placed in the sign of its detriment in the 8th house.


Nice analysis and I am compelled to concur, but I think you meant the Sun is in detriment in the 7th rather than the 8th.

I'm using Porphyry Cusps, and the SA Sun enters the 8th House spring of 2020, at which time SA Saturn will oppose natal Uranus, and SA Uranus will square the natal PoF.

Just prior to that in 2016, SA Uranus will square natal Mars while transiting Mars opposes natal Mars, while SA Sun opposes natal Saturn.

From 1996 data, the Kosovar population (I'm reluctant to call them Albanians since they aren't) in Macedonia was 25%. Their birth rate averages about 8% to 14% per year, so they will out-breed the Macedonians and have a numerical majority by 2010 or so. I fully expect the KLA to start operations there if they haven't already. It's certainly a flash-point to watch.

sasha_i wrote:
All in all I would say that the predominance of Saturn is as a prophetic destiny for this part of the world (in my opinion the whole region is under the influence of Saturn, and this can be seen in the charts of the important moments of the countries from this region), and also unfortunately not quite the benefic one. It signifies poverty, struggle for a material status, resources that won’t come so easily (or maybe supporters?).


The reason the US is hell-bent on independence for Kosovo-Metojiha, other than its natural resources, is that an oil/natural gas pipeline was slated to be run through the province.

If Yugoslavia controlled Kosovo-Metohija, then it would profit from the revenues of the pipeline, gain wealth and be able to influence the region and as an ally of Russia, that poses a threat to US interests.

The US wanted to castrating Yugoslavia by breaking it up to diminish its power. Kosovo-Metohija will now benefit from the profits of the oil/natural gas pipeline. That's also the reason the US was quick to put military bases in Romania and Bulgaria, so that when the Romanians and Bulgarians realize they are getting screwed, they can't just start doing business with Russia so easily.

With Mars as the ruler of the 9th House and co-ruler/sub-ruler of the 4th House, the Moon ruling the 12th, and Neptune ruling the 8th, the interplay between those progressed/directed planets does not look good for the future of the country.
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zuli



Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 83

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeLu wrote:
The chart doesn’t look very promising. The Sun ruler of people is placed in the sign of its detriment in the 8th house.

Consider Sun in the 7th as it is in the same sign as the cusp of the 7th is and there are more than 5 degrees to the cusp of the 8th and the last cusp is in other sign from the sign of the 7th and the sun. But yes, the sun is in detriment. Sun conjunct Rahu and trine Mars, and in angular house, so no the worst one... The Moon and Mercury are very well, and Mars nearly well.
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Slayer of Cliffracers



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 17

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at Kosovo's chart and with only Mundane Astrology on Skyscript as my guide, I will interpret Kosovo's chart.

The Sun represents the Sovereign governing orginisation, the political elite/leadership. It is in Aquarius, suggesting that Kosovo will have an unusual and somewhat quirky regime, one that tries out new and unusual ideas and deviates from the established political categories.

The Sun is 7th House, this suggests a political leadership bound up in treaties and dealings with other nations. That is to say, dealing with other nations or conflicting with them is essential to Kosovo's political leadership's destiny. Of all Independance movements in history, few of them are as wrapped up in International Diplomacy as Kosovo is already.

The combination of Neptune and the 6th House suggests Kosovo has a very strong future involving a powerful Socialist or Communist movement. This is interesting to say the least given present situations, it may not be realised in the short term (alternatively it could represent simply conquest by such movements and annexation). The conjunction with the Sun suggests that this movement will come to power or that the ruling elite will basically reform itself along those lines. Neptune also represents Crime and Vice, suggesting a government wrapped up with Law and Order, or completely corrupted by mafia. So basically, a government dominated by mafia or by Socialists/Communists lies ahead.

Mercury is in conjunction with Venus, suggesting a strong concern with women's rights and population growth dominating the national press and also it's it's communications with other nations. This is however in an uneasy relationship with the nations Inconjunct 1st House Saturn, which represents it's general state. Perhaps this would represent a long-term struggle between Feminist and Anti-Feminist (Islamist?) forces which must be resolved.

Religious Capricorn Jupiter is in the 5th House opposing 11th House Moon. The position of the Moon in the 11th House and in Cancer. This is interesting, since 11th House represents local government, and essentially Kosovo's national legitimacy depends rather much upon de-centralisation and local self-government as a principle. Jupiter in 5th House suggests that the nation 'religion' will principly be laid back and not particularly pius but also rather simple puritan in a lot of ways and not be on particularly good terms with the common people (Moon). Thus we would expect a fairly secular, pluralistic and godless population in the long term.

10th House Mars opposing 5th House Pluto suggests an ability to make great changes without violence, that is to say to reform society to revolutionary degrees that would normally inspire civil war. On the other hand, the 10th House location of Mars suggests a political elite dominated by militery concerns, but one that will yet not use militery means to carry forth change. The opposition of Pluto/Mars also suggests a nation that conflicts militerily with progressive, Plutonian regimes (all despite apparantly having a rather Leftist destiny?).

Lastly there is the Ascendant, which in Leo presumably designates a nation that is taken more seriously that perhaps it should be. This is definately the case, it definately gets more attention diplomaticly and causes more controversy than it is really worth.

1st House Saturn, already given a passing mention is interesting. Because it suggests a nanny state of sorts, a society that is Democratic (Saturn is with the people (1st House) but also one in which the State is very powerful and has a very strong role in the lives of individuals. So combined with everything else, it would suggest a future of Democratic Socialism for Kosovo. Which is pretty suprising.
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