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The Moon in the Via Combusta - how strict should one be?
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Laura BT



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 39

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: The Moon in the Via Combusta - how strict should one be? Reply with quote

Hello All,

Can a chart with the moon in via combusta go beyond the first hurdle? Olivia Barclay in Horary Astrology Rediscovered says that a chart with the Moon in this position (15 Libra – 15 Scorpio) should be discarded. How strict should one be with this rule? I am uncertain, especially as the sky has ‘moved on’ since this rule was erected?

I ask this question as I have drawn up a chart with the moon 27 Libra as the chart ruler, with 21 Cancer rising; the moon in 4th house position of home, which is also relates to the property development question I asked, which leads to another question, being the novice horary student that I am: can the querent and the quesited be one and the same? Hummmm? Confused

Should I, upon Olivia’s recommendation, throw this chart out?

In case you are interested, here are the chart details:
Will there be a property development built opposite the St L house?
Feb 25 2008 at 14:24 pm Uzes, France 04E25, 44N01
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spirlhelix



Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Laura

As a rule, I would not necessarily discard a chart with a Via Combusta Moon. However, I would not count on it working out as anticipated, either.

I would keep it for study purposes, and at the same time I would try asking the question at another time. I would not use it for investment purposes.

The Via Combusta Moon is "unpredictable"; Lilly says "not safe to judge". That says it all! The future action the chart predicts is not stable or, in a sense, "legible" in the chart. The querent may be somewhat obsessive about the matter in question. The chart may otherwise be very descriptive, however, and that will give you practice reading a chart.

Sometimes the Via Combusta Moon describes something literally "combustible"; I once had a chart where the Via Combusta Moon described a business deal which would have engaged the querent in the sale of candles and cigarette lighters to be sold in a chain of gas stations!
Since I considered the Moon descriptive in this chart, I did read this chart to the querent; although the chart gave very clear warnings, it was quite an ordeal to dampen her enthusiasm for this scheme. Obsessive, indeed!

The querent in your chart is both Moon and Lady of the Ascendant, one and the same, the Moon. That is not a problem. The quesited is indicated by the ruler of the cusp of the fourth house; that is not the Moon, so again, no problem.

Hope this is useful!

Pam
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Gunhilde



Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 800

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would second Pam. It isn't necessary to throw the chart out; what I've found is that Via Combusta comes up in questions where there is a lot of emotional angst: relationships, especially, but sometimes job queries, etc. I would agree about the obsessive quality of it; it can also signify agitation, which is possibly why Lilly warned against such charts: people seldom make sensible decisions when in an agitated state...

Best,
GH Smile
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a workshop last year, Geoffrey Cornelius had this to say about Moon in Via Combusta -: He said that the Moon is in the Via Combusta for 2½ days a month and that it's like having a Sunday (day of rest) for those 2½ days. He added that it re-introduces the idea of the sacredness of time, that time isn’t just there for us to use. He also said that low morale affects the question and will affect the astrologer if s/he takes it on. This last bit seems to jive with what Pam said about her experience with taking on a chart with moon in via combusta.

Tara
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Laura BT



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 39

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpiralHelix, Gunhilde & Tara,

Thank you all so much for your insight. I think you are all right, in as much as that it was also a Moon day, at the Moon hour, and my almost 19 degree Cancer Sun only a few degrees from the ascendant! I am too involved in this question, emotional yes, but I thought I had it under control (obviously not!), and perhaps some might call it obsessive about the home issue; it has been too long since I had a 'secure' place to call home.

Pam, I will keep the chart as a study chart as suggested. Thanks for clarifying the questited - 7th house Venus in Aquarius, Saturn is in opp to the, Sun (T Saturn is also conjunct my prog Sun) and the T sun is conjunct my prog Moon. Another signification of my emotional involvement!

Tara: I loved what Geoffrey Cornelius says about the via combusta - so I am now giving the housing issue a day off - also I was really tired yesterday, having been up since 4am helping hubby at a fair, so maybe it just isn't yet the right time to study at the question?

Thanks again for all help. Thumbs up Smile Most appreciated!
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spirlhelix



Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laura,

Wishing you the best in your search for "home"! Lilly uses the fourth house for real estate development questions. You might want to study the chart to see what it can tell you about that property; it might be a good way to use the chart for practice.

Warm regards,

Pam
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found that when it comes to my own horary questions, only those that arise almost it seems of their own accord from a strong sense of urgency and necessity give rise to clear charts with clear answers. Most of the horaries I do on my own behalf are clear as mud. Confused

All the best with finding your home, Laura.

Tara
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john



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 588
Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I just add my thanks to all who have answered this question. The issue of how strict I should be with via combusta has developed into being cautious about the chart, rather than discounting it completely.

I can acknowledge Tara's comments about the quagmire I seem to end up in when I do horaries for myself!

PS May I also draw your attention to the NEWS forum, where I have posted details of our local groups annual conference.
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Laura BT



Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 39

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having now done more research – courtesy the wondrous internet – with relative ease I found, from Maurice Mcann, that the most dangerous period of the via combusta is from 25 Libra – 06 Scorpio, due to its’ intense Martial influence.

Thoughts abound due to the reference to Sun and Moon being in fall, Saturn exhalted in Libra, and Mars being in term to Libra and ruling Scorpio: What came to mind was how this area is still so poigant in modern day. Take Mick O’Neil’s Libra Lottery project for instance. Mick tells me that when the MC is around 26 Libra, our human psychic abilities are enhanced; due to this being a ‘thinner’ part of the Milky Way, ‘other’ airwaves are more direct (Mars?) and can therefore be 'picked-up' (grounded Saturn?) more easily. Perhaps this might also be another reason as to why Saturn is Lord of Karma – apart from it being the traditionalist’s threshold into the dark unknown? Apologies if I am not thinking laterally enough.

To conclude: the Moon at 27 Libra in the Via Combusta in my ‘property development chart’ heats up a 4th H domestic relationship, with quesited as 7th H Venus is in Aquarius. The Moon is in a trine to NN-Neptune = a future mystified.

To make things blur even more, this Moon position conjuncts both mine, and Mr BT’s Neptune! (And we both have martial moons!)

One of my teachers, Sogyal Rinpoche (of Tibetan Book of Living and Dying), says that the mind can be likened to mud in a glass of water: when the mind, i.e. the water is stirred up, the ‘water’ becomes cloudy and thick; but leave the water alone and the mind to settle, without thoughts and emotions to agitate the situation, the water becomes clear and one is able to see the view.

Still we cannot see clearly about this property and with typical Libran influence one minute we think we will go for it, then decide against it the next!

But a real gift from this ‘property development’ chart has been to broaden an understanding of the moon for me, and how, after several decades of marking the usual eight phases of the moon in one way or another, with each cycle blending Eastern moon concepts with West’s I now see another side of lunar influence.

I have also had massive personal Moon revelation: how Mr BT’s Libra Sun has a ‘lunation’ just degrees before the Moon, in traditional Western astrology, goes into Via Combusta; by rights this should issue ‘caution’, and how, when the 2 ½ day period ends at 15 Scorpio, it does so conjoined to my Saturn, and his Saturn-Mercury. Even with Spica and Acturus present, they only add to the sense of nurturing the mind. Such fascinating food for thought! Especially as little ol’ Cancerian moi thought she knew all about moon cycles! So thanks to horary for bringing yet another new dimension of the glorious moon alive for me. And thank you everyone for all your helpful encouragement and good wishes.
Thumbs up Very Happy
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 695

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just reading through this old thread to find an answer to how to see this 29 degrees Libra Moon, which also doesn't make another aspect before leaving the sign, unless you count the conjunction to the Moons north node, which I am unsure how to interpret anyway.

The question was asked by a friend, whether she would pass her university course, and her mood at the time of asking the question was far more anxious than she usually is, and I picked up on that mood too. At the time of writing down the time and date of the question, I told her that a horary chart can be unreadable because of via combusta Moon, even without looking at the Moons position, which I can never remember anyway. I also said that I am only learning. After doing the chart I explained that the chart wasn't readable, because it was the wrong time to answer the question, not that she wouldn't pass her university course.

The question was asked yesterday, Tuesday 15th April 2014, at 4.53pm, London UK.

I have a feeling there is a horary rule about the Moon in the 29th degree of a sign as well?

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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Fleur,

Not only is moon in a critical degree in via combusta but also Mercury which signifies both the querent (L1) and the quesited (L10) is all wrapped up in the Grand Cross and the question was asked on the day of an eclipse! In this case the moon in the fiery way is a good excuse not to get involved at this time with an overheated situation.

It is serendipitous that I stumbled upon this old post today as I had a situation arise just yesterday which I was trying to judge based on the time it happened. The moon was in 16 degrees Libra conjunct Mars which I thought was a very bad sign. Now, however, I can rely on the Moon being in the Via Combusta to say don't judge this chart as meaningful at all, which is a great relief to me.
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Mjacob



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 412
Location: Kent - England

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ib'n Ezra alone as far as I am aware states that a planet in the last degree of a sign is already in the next sign too. She is still in the combust way but look at the aspects from the first degree here. The result could be interesting
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1436

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mjacob wrote:
Ib'n Ezra alone as far as I am aware states that a planet in the last degree of a sign is already in the next sign too. She is still in the combust way but look at the aspects from the first degree here. The result could be interesting


Hello Mjacob, if you refer to chapter 8, 35) then Ibn Ezra does not claim "the planet at the end of a sign" to be IN the next sign, but, to be precise, only that "it loses its strength and all of its power is in the sign it will enter [next]."
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1436

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:
I told her that a horary chart can be unreadable because of via combusta Moon, [... ]After doing the chart I explained that the chart wasn't readable, because it was the wrong time to answer the question, not that she wouldn't pass her university course.
[...]
I have a feeling there is a horary rule about the Moon in the 29th degree of a sign as well?

Hello Fleur, can you explain, where you have read that the Moon in via combusta makes the chart ureadable, please?

At least Lilly does not seem to be of this opinion, making the via combusta more to be the problem of "some" others. But as to your feeling concerning "the Moon in the 29th of a sign" he seems to be even more stricter, speaking of the later degrees of a sign. See William Lilly, CA, p. 122:

"It’s not safe to judge when the MO is in the later degrees of a
Signe, especially in Gemini Scorpio or Capricorne; or as some say,
when she is in Via Combusta , which is, when she is in the last
15 degrees of Libra, or the first fifteen degrees of Scorpio
."
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1436

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tara wrote:
I'll repeat what I wrote in 2008 above in answer to your question, Johannes.

As you could easily see by comparing the data and the names, John, whose question you answered, is not me, and John's question and your answer were before I became a member of this forum at all.

But thanks for your answer anyway, Tara. Very Happy
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