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will I stay in this country
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MoonRising



Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 51

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: will I stay in this country Reply with quote

Hi all,

I am dealing with some visa problems, I live in Australia and want to stay here. My visa runs out feb 2014, I am frantically looking at my options. I asked if I will stay here after my visa runs out, meaning find a way to prolong my stay. This is an old chart and I am not sure what it shows.

I am unable to post the chart, as I am on a tablet, my comp is broken. I hope someone can help me post my chart, please. The date of the chart is 20th jan 2013, 9:20pm, Melbourne, Australia. Asc is at 14.05 Leo

my significator is Sun, in detriment in thr 6th conjunct Mercury and applying to Jupiter in detriment, retrograde in 10th house. This doesn't look good. It shows my situation at the time of question, rather than future right? I am in detriment because perhaps my options are limited and I am not able to help myself. Sun is conjunct Mercury ruler of 10th, the visa. Jupiter collects the light of both, but its in detriment so perhqps shows having to apply several times to stay? Jupiter rules my 4th current home, I think. If I do relocate back to Europe, I would look at application to Saturn, ruler of 7th, but there is none.

I can't be that unhappy with my situation in feb, as Moon is exalted, so emotionally I am in a good place, but perhaps physically I will have to return back for a while? I am confused why my ruler is in aqua, in beginning of a sign and ruled by 7th ruler Saturn. If I were to relocate, Sun should have been at the end of a sign or apply to Saturn, Moon is also in fixed sign, however both are in cadent houses. Moon in 9th may show studies or travel back home? I am look at studying as one of the options that I have.

Also, Moon has opposed Saturn and now approaching square to Mars. Notice Mars and Saturn have mutual reception and conjunct by antiscion. What would this imply? I am actually seeking a relationship with someone, could this show my struggle with relationship? Of course if I enter this relationship, I will have stronger incentive to stay. Can someone please help me interpret this chart? Did I miss anything?

Thanks Smile
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Wolfgang



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 159
Location: Wr. Neudorf, Austria

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://screencast.com/t/UY26yStri

with best regards

Wolfgang
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1436

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your significators are the Sun and the Moon, her position in her exaltation in the 9th showing you to be abroad, and there in high spirits (probably until now at least).

The light of the Sun is translated by Mercury (significator of the state where you are now and of the place where you want to remain at) to Jupiter, significator of your current habitation.

It looks like the state would connect you with your habitation what should be a testimony for your being allowed by government to stay in Australia.

Jupiter re-trograde now like re-moving will become direct again at the end of coming January, another testimony for your remaining in Australia.

Also, the distance Mercury wants to conjoin Jupiter being about 4 1/2 degrees fits the timing given (about 4 and a half weeks) until February.

In all you should succeed in getting the allowance to stay in Australia.

But you should be really careful with your communicating your desire to the authorities, because the Moon is squaring Mars, lord of your 3rd, soon, i.e. in 3 1/2 degrees about. But by this time window it could also easily be a warning that you will have to fight hardly to - or before you can - get your desire, because the square is without mutual reception and thus rather problematic.
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 764
Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Question was asked on 20th of January 2013, if you are still in Australia, it means you stayed. Did I miss something?

At the time of Question, Sun in Fixed sign tells about fixity i.e staying. Dont worry about Sun in detriment, it exactly reflects that you are not in your own country.
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Morpheus

https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1436

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: will I stay in this country Reply with quote

MoonRising wrote:
Hi all, [...]
Did I miss anything?


. . . obviously to post your question a little bit earlier and not after 11 (!) months without warning at a proper place.

I have no time at the moment to correct my judgement with regard to the timing but don't remove it now either.

It should be cosidered whether you could have succeeded in your efforts in the spring, and that it is too late now.
Or whether you should ask a new question now - perhaps. Circumstances have changed probably since winter/spring in this year (2013).
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MoonRising



Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 51

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for looking into this! Yes the question was asked in Jan this year 2013, the visa expires feb 2014. I asked if I can stay beyond my visa expiry date, that is get another visa after coming feb. Nothing has changed, my situation is not better. Yes I suppose if I had tried harder and followed my migration lawyers advice my situation would have been better. My family is pressuring me to return, on top of that I have debts to repay back home...

Well the subsequent charts I asked regarding study and relocation point to me staying. I will give details of another chart when I get home this afternoon.

Thanks Smile
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 764
Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoonRising,

Well.... Why asking question full year before the date of expiry of Visa?

Question asked on 20th of January 2013 is a wish or an idle curiosity, but question asked in December 2013 would mean a lot of importance to you...because you lived for one year in Australia and you found out that it suited you well etc etc...
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Morpheus

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PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 693
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:49 am    Post subject: Looking at a chart retrospectively Reply with quote

Actually, I think the querent has shown a good understanding and appreciation of the rules of horary by considering the first chart cast for the question. The situation has not expired yet. Still 1 month or maybe a couple weeks to go? Also shown considerable self-restraint in not posting (or casting?) lots of subsequent charts....

I have learnt from experience to take visa applications as "a gift of the king" or the government so 11th house. In this case mercury, combust. Separating from the querent, perhaps the visa issue came up previously?

Interesting that in 10 or 11 degrees the moon hits Algol. Panic has set in 10 or 11 months after this chart was cast and the querent has brought the chart to the forum.

Interesting also that the 2/8 axis is at 29 degrees... stressed and "ending" something.. 8th of debts as mentioned in the subsequent posts.
2nd house is our helpers ie the immigration lawyer mentioned and I would take that as mercury again (sorry) ...combust, ie ignored as stated.

What happened in the timescales mentioned by Johannes which have surely been and gone by now?

I think my judgement would be that a visa would not be issued due to the combustion... unless that visa had been applied for a couple of months prior the chart being cast.

But I also agree that being in a fixed sign, and right at the beginning would be a testimony for staying put and starting something permanent.

Is marriage an option? Sun meets saturn after about 10 degrees... months... or years. But you would have mentioned that option already, I am sure? In fact, checking again, isn't mercury translating between sun and saturn? (Sorry, I find these charts a bit tricky to read).

Hope you come back with a response : )
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cosmicdolphin



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 730

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi people

I will be yelled I know.
Here is what i am thinking. Maybe she stands a chance of staying. Here is why

Sun her even though weak in cadent is separating from merc (visas) BUT if we are to look if she will stay or go. I have a feeling she will manage to stay

Current place is Jupiter 4th house
Immigration is 7th removal - there is malefic
Jupiter is strong but retro but in 10th house

sun will trine jupiter!

I COULD BE WRONG!

CD
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MoonRising



Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 51

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks PallasAthene and Cosmicdolphin!

I am still unsure of the outcome. I have applied for a course and just got enrolled, so will now apply for another student visa. Not sure if I will get it though. I have been in this country for close to a decade always being on temporary/work visas - so its not a new situation at all, hence my worry about it a year ago. I lost chance for getting permanent visa twice, due to misunderstanding and change of laws.

If I get this temp student visa, its again only for a short time and I will be back worrying about it when the new visa expires. But I should get the student visa - Mercury translating to Jupiter Retrograde probably showing reapplying for visa - I have been on so many visas. I sometimes worry they will refuse this one or make it very hard for me to get this time.

I will be back to update.

thanks again!
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, everyone!

I only now see this chart - I'd say that it is a great example of how descriptive of the situation Horary charts can be.
The Moon is cadent in this chart however, considering the nature of the Question- it is expected that the Moon will be inside the 9th, stressing the Querent's desire to stay abroad. Non-willingness to leave is also obvious from the fixed Asc/Desc. L1 is conjunct the planet that naturally rules documents of all kinds whilst the retrograde ruler of education is on MC inside Gemini which resonates with the bureaucratic mess and repeated applications for a student visa.

I looked at the chart first and then I went thorough the replies posted here and it turns out that PallasAthene and I are thinking alike in this case: I also think that this is a good example of a responsible approach to a Horary question. In addition, if we treat Horary charts as complex predictive tools (which they are), then asking questions well in advance actually allows us to use the benefits of this virtue to their maximum value. If the answer is negative, we have enough time to adjust our plants to the inevitable outcome and prevent even more damage. On the other hand, if there is anything more that we can do in order to achieve the desired result, asking the question in advance puts us in a position to learn about our possibilities timely and to do what ever we can to turn the things to our own advantage.
Also, I would generally assign the 11th to such questions for the reasons already mentioned by PallasAthene.


Quote:
I have been in this country for close to a decade always being on temporary/work visas .... I lost chance for getting permanent visa twice, due to misunderstanding and change of laws.


When I read that you had been in Australia for a decade, my first thought was - aren't people entitled to a permanent visa after that time? But, then I spotted the second half of the quoted text.
I find charts in which the Ascendant ruler burns another planet very intriguing and, admittedly, often confusing. The combustion is traditionally seen as a very negative sign and, whilst we can often easily deciphre the influence of combustion in cases when the sun rays are damaging either L1 or another relevant planet, seeing another planet burnt by L1 usually makes us think - What, on Earth, is wrong here? Smile

But, the answer to this question is probably hiding in your explanations. Both the 10th (the authorities) and the 11th (the documents issued by the authorities) are ruled by Mercury in this chart - and that is exactly the planet that your ruler is damaging. As I already mentioned, , Mercury is also the natural ruler of documents of all types which is a double testimony of the mistakes that you made on a few occasions. You, yourself, cast a shadow onto the informations that are necessary (combustion often makes things invisible dues to the Sun's brightness) and so you omitted a few important facts over the years which resulted in not getting the visa. This could be read as a strong testimony of a need to get a well informed professional adviser (a lawyer, I assume) who would lead you through the process.
Ina way, L1 combusting the ruler of the Quesited could be explained like this - You aren't doing yourself a favour! Smile
Your ruler is currently stuck in a cadent house but a house that suggests temporary and low paid jobs whilst you're applying for a student visa. There appears to be a certain imbalance here that you need to decipher - could it be that you're focusing onto a student visa whilst you should actually be chasing a permanent or work visa? Or, should you be concentrating onto a student visa and, at least for the moment, forget about the work visa?!

Another interesting thing is that the ruler of your homeland is actually on MC, retrograde and receiving the application of your ruler. For some reason, i just don't see it as an indication of your need to go back home but, at the same time, apart from the obvious (and, again, already mentioned by PallasAthene- marriage Smile ), it makes me wonder if there is any chance of getting the papers through an institution that is actually described by the 4th? An organisation that has something to do with your homeland, perhaps?

In general, I would say that you are most likely to get a new student visa after which, you might want to consider asking a question that will help you approach the situation in a constructive way and allow you to prepare everything for the next year well in advance.

Cheers,

aglaya
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cosmicdolphin



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 730

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Aglaya. I am not seeing going back here at all!
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MoonRising



Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 51

Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Aglaya!

Very wise words, indeed I agree with you - horary as a predictive tool can help us understand what the problem is and work around the issue well in advance. And you are so right - yes Sun, me burning my own chances of staying here permanently. I made too many mistakes, I suppose my focus has been on other things and in back of my mind I thought I'll just go back.

I'm not sure what the 4th house home organization would be. Perhaps its family? But my family is overseas, or maybe I set up home with a partner here and yes if I do enter a longterm relationship with someone here, I can apply for spouse visa. Time will tell.

thanks for your help!
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cosmicdolphin



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 730

Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moon,

dont forget that 4th house is current residence too

CD
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MoonRising



Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 51

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, I now have another problem.

I got my visa, pretty fast. But I hate my course, I can't see myself doing this course. Its also expensive. If I change the course to the one I want, they may refuse me the visa.

But that might be why Jupiter is retrograde - reapplying for the visa. And Moon square Mars. No wonder Sun is in detriment, yes I am in deep trouble again. I have to act fast to get the refund from the course I am doing, or I may lose the money after a certain date. But will I get the visa for the new course? Can this old chart show this? Sun is in fixed sign, so I don't think I am leaving the country. I am just worried I will get in trouble from immigration department, they may question me for changing the course.


any thoughts? thanks!
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