skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

The Planets and Religions.
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane Astrology & World Events
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Draco



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 176
Location: England.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:19 am    Post subject: The Planets and Religions. Reply with quote

Please share with me your thoughts:

Saturn is Judaism, Jupiter is Christianity, Mars is surely, Islam. Notice that we come inward from the outer sphere in order of the age of the religion.

These are the three major monotheistic religions, each presided over by a superior planet, and each a single planet alone: such is the nature of monotheism.

Traditionally, Saturn and Jupiter are 'friends', Saturn and Mars are 'enemies', as are Jupiter and Mars. Interesting, in light of the above correspondences.

Paganism and polytheism are under the domain, I'm thinking, of the Moon, Mercury and Venus, although I would assign no one planet to any particular pagan/polytheistic religion: such is the nature of polytheism.

Matters of divinity in general, are the domain of the Sun.

Just my thoughts.

What say you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1380

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judaism and Islam get the malefics A and B. Christianity gets the big, fat, jolly greater benefic. Yes, there are some correspondences, but something smells here. Itís not helped by your ďMars is surely, IslamĒ. Itís only fairly recently that Christian Europe has given up its brutal blood lust. Interestingly enough, that has coincided with a drastic drop in church attendance in most of Europe. Also, there seems to be a strong lunar element in Islamic cultures, for example the crescent Moon and lunar calendar.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tom
Moderator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3491
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once opined, on another list, that Islam was the Moon, probably thinking of the crescent Moon symbol. I was immediately corrected and told that according to Al Biruni, Islam is Venus. I don't have the time to look that up. Perhaps someone else will.

Tom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
amelia



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 397
Location: Wales

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom

When I was in Libya last year ( just as Ramadam ended with the new moon) our guide explained that the moon crescent (with star) symbol actually dates back to a Christian source ( and probably before that). He pointed out in the museum a stoen carving dating back to a suitabel time and place ( which I have forgotten due to my subsequent head injury).

I am not sure that Venus "is" Islam, but it is of special significance, but then again that is partially due to the crescent rising with venus after new moon etc and thus connected to the symbol above.

In any case, I am not sure that we can attribute any planet to a specific religion. As Kirk points out, there is a temptation to project our views. I think Jupiter represents the faith associated with religion, Saturn the dogma and Mars the need to promote it ( or shove it down the throat of/slit the throat of the unbeliever).

So now I must apologise to Mars. So badly maligned. So unacceptable in 21st century society. Poor little Mars, he needs a big hug.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Draco



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 176
Location: England.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Judaism and Islam get the malefics A and B. Christianity gets the big, fat, jolly greater benefic.


Well....yes.

I'm not a Christian by the way, I'm a proud heathen.

Saturn and Judaism is no surprise, is that not the traditional view anyway? Looking back into Jewish history, replete with tales of exile and victimisation as it is, a malefic isn't inappropriate. Mars speaks for itself, especially if you read the Qu'ran.

Quote:
Itís not helped by your ďMars is surely, IslamĒ. Itís only fairly recently that Christian Europe has given up its brutal blood lust.


Did you ever read the Qu'ran?

What do you mean 'It's not helped'? What isn't?

In any case, I gave other reasoning for corresponding the monotheistic religions as such, than 'brutal blood lust', for Mars and Islam, your words, not mine, but as you've said it...

Read the Qu'ran. Wink

Quote:
I once opined, on another list, that Islam was the Moon, probably thinking of the crescent Moon symbol. I was immediately corrected and told that according to Al Biruni, Islam is Venus.


Yes, I have read that Islam is meant to be under the domain of Venus according to Al Biruni. He doesn't tell us the reasoning though.

Then again, Venus is the only planet that is 'friends' with Mars.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
I once opined, on another list, that Islam was the Moon, probably thinking of the crescent Moon symbol. I was immediately corrected and told that according to Al Biruni, Islam is Venus. I don't have the time to look that up. Perhaps someone else will.

Tom


I don't have the list in front of me, but The Picatrix lists these out. Islam is definitely Venus and Judaism is Saturn. From memory I believe Christianity was the Sun, and I think Hinduism was Jupiter, and "paganism", though they didn't call it that, was the Moon. I think atheism was Mars.

When I get home I'll pull it up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Draco



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 176
Location: England.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thankyou Mithra. It'll be interesting.

Quote:
Islam is definitely Venus and Judaism is Saturn.


Well, it would be wouldn't it, in an Arabic text. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Draco wrote:
Thankyou Mithra. It'll be interesting.

Quote:
Islam is definitely Venus and Judaism is Saturn.


Well, it would be wouldn't it, in an Arabic text. Smile


The clue is in the various religions' sacred days:

Judaism - Saturday - Saturn
Islam - Friday - Venus
Christianity - Sunday - Sun

I remember reading that when the Romans sacked the temple in Jerusalem, they placed the spoils in the temple of Saturn.

I think in cases like this, you have to look at attributes other than the usual malefic/benefic. If you think what Saturn represents - tradition, age, that kind of thing, it gives you a clue. This makes sense for the Sun in Christianity as well.

Attribute-wise, I'm not sure why Venus=Allah, but the original patron goddess of Mecca was a Venus-like goddess, so it may just as simple as keeping certain practices in place as Islam took over.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mattG



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 345
Location: Greenwich UK

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are stories about Venus being prominent in the sky during significant moments in the early history of Islam. I thought that the connection was to do with pre-islamic Goddesses. Al-lat was a lunar deity but one other was venusian.This is rather controversial to Muslims though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Draco



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 176
Location: England.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The clue is in the various religions' sacred days:

Judaism - Saturday - Saturn
Islam - Friday - Venus
Christianity - Sunday - Sun


Ahh. Now I see.

Quote:
I think in cases like this, you have to look at attributes other than the usual malefic/benefic.


I wasn't attributing Saturn and Mars to Judaism and Islam out of prejudice, that's not the issue, Saturn has long been associated with the Jews, and if we proceed inwards, and in order of age, Jupiter for Christianity, Mars for Islam. These are superior planets and the worlds most dominant religions, also monotheistic (one planet). My observation that Saturn and Mars are traditional 'enemies', as are Jupiter and Mars, while Saturn and Jupiter are traditional 'friends', was just an interesting after-thought, that made these attributions still more intriguing to me.

Saturn and Mars have many other qualities than being merely 'malefic'. Interesting how this is the foremost thing on people's minds though.

(Yes, I've edited, I made some points that were rather irrelevant, and are symptomatic of a spiritual crisis that I am going through at this time, much to the reason I created this thread in the first place, but no need to take this out by sounding harsh towards others. In respect of Kirk, I am about to send him what I have just edited out, as that's only fair).


Last edited by Draco on Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Draco



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 176
Location: England.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There are stories about Venus being prominent in the sky during significant moments in the early history of Islam.


I do remember a friend telling me once, that the reason for the Islamic symbolism of the cresent moon, along with a star, is that the star is said to represent Venus, because apparently, this was the configuration in the sky at the birth (or some significant event pertaining to the life of) of Mohammed, with a waning cresent, and Venus right next to the Moon at the dark side.

I'd have to confirm this though.

Does anyone know anythng more aout this?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Draco



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 176
Location: England.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Steven.

Quote:
First, Jupiter was never given a particular religion! It was by nature a significator of faith,...period! It was a part of their delineation to see the planet which Jupiter was mixed with:


Okay, fair enough.

Who are the ancient mundane astrologers to which you refer though? I wonder who the 'blasphemers' were in their opinion?

I understand that traditionally, Venus has been associated with Islam (but only by Muslims or quotes of Muslims?), but I would be unable to consider Venus the natural significator of Islam if I was seeking to find such signification in a chart. The Qu'ran is not Venusian, which is there to be explored.

I need to ask a horary right now, I'm in a bit of a dilemma with this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deb
Administrator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I think we should try to get into the habit of mentioning sources or specific works when ancient or traditional opinions are given.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Draco



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 176
Location: England.

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thankyou for that Steven.

A Muslim opinion though, and I suspected as much.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Draco wrote:
Thankyou for that Steven.

A Muslim opinion though, and I suspected as much.


You're going to have a hard time finding a non-Muslim opinion on this in traditional Western astrology unless you find a Hindu source.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Mundane Astrology & World Events All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated