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Cancer and Capricorn Rising
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3509
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Cancer and Capricorn Rising Reply with quote

I just came into possession of Meira Epstein's wonderful new translation of Ibn Ezra's The Book of Nativities and Revolutions [ARHAT]. As is my habit when I get a new book that I wish to devour, I skim it first mostly because I have no patience and want to grasp as much as possible in a short time. Then I read it properly.

During my skim reading I came across this sentence.


Quote:
Doroneous [i.e. Dorotheus of Sidon]said if the rising sign is Capricorn or Cancer, then the native will have quarrels with siblings. The reason for this is known since the ruler of the third house is [also] the ruler of the twelfth house which indicates quarrels.


Looking at this another way and assuming whole sign or equal houses, if Capricorn rises Sagittarius is on the 12th and Pisces is on the 3rd. Jupiter rules both. If Cancer rises, Gemini is on the 12th and Virgo is on the 3rd both ruled by Mercury. He (or Dorotheus) is tying together the meanings of the 12th and 3rd via the rulers. This could also be done with other houses as well and with other rulers. Ibn Ezra does so when he says that people with Aries or Libra rising cause their own deaths since with Aries on the ASC Scorpio is on the 8th and with Libra on the ASC Taurus is on the 12th. This is assuredly, a pretty broad statement. I'm sure everyone with Aries and Libra rising is not self destructive and those with Pisces on the second doesn't have wealthy friends or takes money from friends.

But the Cancer and Capricorn observation is intriguing. The first person who came to mind was my ex wife, Cancer rising, and she was and is forever fighting with her siblings.

I'm wondering, if anyone out there can substantiate this. I doubt it works every time as there are always mitigating factors in astrology, and I'm sure there are people with Cancer or Capricorn rising that have no siblings to fight with. But the use of the rulers like this is new to me. Does anyone else look at a chart like this?

Tom
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Labalance



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 122

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I have five different charts that are either capricorn or cancer rising and two of the charts are men with one brother each and I know they don't quarrel with their brothers, although they see them as very different. The other two each make an effort not to quarrel with one of their siblings (one has three and the other has two) that sibling has a very different world view than they do.
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sigma4



Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 116

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,

My mother has a Capricorn ascendant.She has three siblings and she's always been very good with them; no quarrels.

Sigma
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SunPluto



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
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Location: Australia

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my ex husband had cancer rising in the 12 years that I knew him, he never had a fight with his family, but I don't think he saw them enough to fight with them. He only told me of one fight he had with his sister when they were children and that was he stabbed his sister in the arm with a lead pencil, but I don't think thats enough.

He was a sulker, didn't initiate fights but would spend days not speaking to me after one, so can only assume thats why he never had an open "cat fight" with his sibling while I knew him.
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,

Riffling through memory,

- One friend with Cancer rising has a perennially unhappy relationship with her brother - he's currently threatening to sue her for more of the family inheritance.

- A client with Capricorn rising who probably wouldn't have lived without her sister who propped up her baby bottle for her to drink (she had a criminally neglectful and abusive mother).

- Another client with Capricorn rising is an only child whose father was married to and had children with someone other than her mother, which made her feel excluded and insecure.

- Another client with Cancer rising has terrible relationships with all 3 of her sisters.

It's a small sample but all do seem to connect siblings and suffering or loss in some form.

The same is true of marriage and loss for Scorpio rising who have Venus ruling both 7 and 12 -- Hillary Clinton and Jacqueline Onassis both demonstrate this.

Tara
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SaturnReturn



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My best friend has Cancer rising and he spends much time with his sister and they seem to get along fine, aside from the normal sibling bickering when they were kids.

Does the 12th indicate quarrels? I thought it was hidden enemies. I suppose with a bit of a stretch it could be hidden quarrels, and if that were the case we probably wouldn't be able to observe them right?

I think we might sometimes forget that when they say the 12th is hidden, it really is hidden! We probably wouldn't perceive much about 12th house things in our own charts or the charts of others. Or does astrology give us the ability to glimpse these hidden aspects of our lives? I don't know I don't have any planets in the 12th house, but I do have ASC Aries! Lala Happy
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Deb
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom

I have Cancer rising and this doesn't apply to me. But then I don't use whole sign houses, so in my way of the world the Sun rules my 3rd house and Mercury rules my 12th.
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Ken



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:26 pm    Post subject: Capricorn/Cancer Reply with quote

I can defiantly relate to this. My wife's sister is Capricorn and can't get along with either sister. Also, my father in-law has the same issue. We believe her grandmother to be Cancer based on other things but this would agree with her relationships too. It fits in my world.

Ken
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fish
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

imho 12th house is by far the most slippery, but it would be, of course

would a corollary of this be that those with leo or virgo rising were quarrel averse?

or that the libra rising people would quarrel about sex?
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Coffee



Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 130

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read in this way using Virgo/Gemini and Taurus/Libra for chart rulers. Both seperate and together. Say you are Gemini rising with Virgo on 4th (Equal), I guess a Mercury aspecting itself would indicate housing/father/family issues.

I do like the Taurus riser causing their own death Very Happy A good way to view that combination, but maybe a little more to it than that. Not wanting to scare all those little lambs out there.

Siblings and quarrels 3rd and 12th...Never sure if to use 12th from 3rd or as it reads. Like it.
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azcelt



Joined: 27 May 2007
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Location: Flagstaff.Arizona

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,
I am a cancer rising and am not able communicate with my sister [my only sibling] I have Gemini on 12th house but Leo on my 3rd due to interception-however my Sun which rules that house is in Gemini in 12th.
Food for thought, thanks
Azcelt
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Cancer and Capricorn Rising Reply with quote

Tom wrote:


I'm wondering, if anyone out there can substantiate this. I doubt it works every time as there are always mitigating factors in astrology, and I'm sure there are people with Cancer or Capricorn rising that have no siblings to fight with. But the use of the rulers like this is new to me. Does anyone else look at a chart like this?

Tom


I can substantiate it in my family! Its right on the mark. My sister fought with me since my earliest memory and today, we do not even speak. All her doing, not mine. My brother hasn't spoken with her in over 14 years.

She has Capricorn rising.

Another friend of mine who's chart I have been looking at lately has Cancer rising and as far as I know, this does not apply to him. My husband will be talking with him next week and I'll find out if it fits him.

RC
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have tried this on a few Cancer rising people with zero success. Cannot comment on Capricorn rising though.

Some of Ibn Ezra's ideas do seem a tad quirky. I note he really seems to really have it in for the sign Aquarius. In his Book of Reasons for example he informs us that this is the true sign of the Devil rather than Capricorn.

I suppose if Sarah Palin ever gets elected to office we will find out if thats true ... Laughing
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Cancer and Capricorn Rising Reply with quote

RC wrote:


Another friend of mine who's chart I have been looking at lately has Cancer rising and as far as I know, this does not apply to him. My husband will be talking with him next week and I'll find out if it fits him.

RC


Our Cancer rising friend said he gets along okay with his siblings.


RC
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Saturngirl



Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 200
Location: England

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Cancer & Capricorn rising Reply with quote

Very Happy Hi Tom,
I noticed your post whilst reviewing back pages of the trad forum& find it profound. I have Capricorn on my Asc.( I use Placidus house system for Nativities),Mars is Lord of the 3rd & is placed in the 7th in the sign of Leo.
My brother is a sun sign Leo & we have always been in conflict & aren't close! Sad
So yes,in my case,sadly,this is true.
Wishes SG Very Happy

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