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How important are the planet dispositers?

 
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croi_croga



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 9

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:32 pm    Post subject: How important are the planet dispositers? Reply with quote

For example: Moon is in capricorn but Saturn in Sagittarius deposits moon.Also if the dispositers are important than are the aspects they make important as well? Confused [/i]
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zuli



Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 83

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is disputable which of dispositors or aspects are more important.


As about the example, Moon acquires some sagittarian properties along with the capricornian ones. Someone may say she is primarily capricornian irrespectively of the dispositor. But another may say she is more sagittarian than capricornian because of the dispositor.
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sasha_i



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Bucuresti

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

I wouldn’t be so radical about this.

First in my opinion there is no argument to give to Moon “properties” of Sagittarius and Capricorn simply because the dispositor of Moon is in Sagittarius.

Dispositor of the planet is a planet that will influence the outcome of the issues governed by the planet disposed. So, I would analyze Saturn position and aspects to determine the outcome of the issues governed (natural or accidentally) by Moon.

In your example something else should give some insights: for example that the zodiacal signs of Moon and Saturn are adjacent.

How important is the dispositor?
Well almost every treaty of classical astrology will give you some references about the position of the dispositor of that planet.
The quality of information you obtain depends on the technique you use, and how you relate the technique, and the result to other factors in chart.
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Papretis



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Finland

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Medieval astrology it's often even thought that because the domicile ruler of the Moon, Saturn, is in an adjancent sign, it doesn't qualify as a ruler at all because it's not able to "see" or "testify" the Moon. You should look at other rulers, the exaltation ruler Mars, the elementary rulers (Venus and Mars on a diurnal chart and Moon and Mars on a nocturnal chart), and also the term and face ruler which depend on the degree the Moon is in. The planet which makes the closest, undisturbed aspect to the Moon is the strongest testifier for it, undisturbed meaning that there's no other planets that would reach the Moon earlier.
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zuli



Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 83

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi people, Smile

I have a question about disposition. Let there be 2 cases:

1. Mars in Sagittarius, Jupiter in Cancer &
2. Mars in Sagittarius, Jupiter in Capricorn.

In which case Mars is more powerful, i.e. better disposed?
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carriere.francois



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 107

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Papretis wrote:
In Medieval astrology it's often even thought that because the domicile ruler of the [planet] is in an adjacent sign, it doesn't qualify as a ruler at all because it's not able to "see" or "testify" the [planet]. You should look at other rulers, the [other dignities] ruler [...etc...]
Hello,

I find this very interesting. Can you give an easily available source where we can study this question (such as Lilly)? Thank you!
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Edward
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disposition and reception are very important in traditional astrology and judgement shouldn't be given on a planet without regarding its rulers/receptions and their state.

Papretis wrote:
In Medieval astrology it's often even thought that because the domicile ruler of the Moon, Saturn, is in an adjancent sign, it doesn't qualify as a ruler at all because it's not able to "see" or "testify" the Moon. You should look at other rulers, the exaltation ruler Mars, the elementary rulers (Venus and Mars on a diurnal chart and Moon and Mars on a nocturnal chart), and also the term and face ruler which depend on the degree the Moon is in.


And if all possible rulers of a planet are in adjacent signs, does this mean then that the planet hasn't got any ruler(s)? For example, suppose a day-time chart: Moon at 19 Capricorn; Saturn and Mars in Sagittarius; Venus in Aquarius - no ruler of Moon?

This medieval thought is kinda moronic!

If the Moon is in Capricorn, Saturn's domicile, Saturn remains her dispositor. No matter where Saturn himself stands, his position has some certain influence on the Moon. Mars might have more influence on the Moon by being the Moon's almuten and maybe also when he is being in aspect with her, but this doesn't make him the Moon's domicile ruler.

"Planets in adjacent signs don't behold each other and hence have no connection."

This is true in most cases. Saturn in Sagittarius can be connected with Moon in Capricorn by antiscion. If Saturn is in term and face, he can help the Moon a little bit (don't be too enthusiastic here). Otherwise he's peregrine, therefore weak and cannot help her, no matter if connected via antiscion or not.

As you said, it is important not only to look at the Moon's dispositor Saturn, but also to look at her other, minor rulers; her exaltation ruler Mars and in a daytime-chart her triplicity ruler Venus. One or both of them might help the detrimented Moon by being essentially strong and somehow connected to her.

Greets, Edward


Last edited by Edward on Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Papretis



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Finland

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carriere.francois wrote:
I find this very interesting. Can you give an easily available source where we can study this question (such as Lilly)? Thank you!

Hi Francois,

I've learnt about this in Ben Dykes' translations of Bonatti http://www.bendykes.com/presale-bottom.htm and the prefaces written by Dykes himself. There's also an enlightening little article about this concept on this forum in astrojin's series about Hellenistic astrology http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3345 .

BTW, Nina Gryphon is publishing a five-part interview of Ben Dykes on her blog http://gryphonastrology.com/blog/ . Nina Gryphon has made a similar interview about Deborah Houlding earlier published in the same blog, both interviews are hugely interesting.
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croi_croga



Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 9

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:14 am    Post subject: Okay. Reply with quote

Some very interesting answers...and opinions. Thanks.
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