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Cardano on fixed stars (1547)
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1353
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Are you saying James Holden has produced a compendium with material from Teucer? Where does Rhetorius come in? Sorry you lost me again there. I hear he is bringing into an english translation of Rhetorius in 2009. Is that what you are referring to? He was an Egyptian so a late source describing the Sphaera Barbarica of Teucer? Confused??


Hello Mark.
I think it's the text known as TR, Teucer in Rethorius.
It's a part of Rethorius Compendium translated by Holden. I have not the whole book, just the pages of Teucer quoted by Rethorius.
I think it's from the text published by Boll in CCAG VIII, anyway I'm quoting this by heart now.

Maybe Holden will do a second edition in 2009 I don't know, I had it from a dear friend in order to compare with Albumasar Liber VI about facies (because Albumasar takes a part of his text from Teucer).
But TR is an abridged version, I believe there are other even if I'm not sure other ones list all 36 facies, TR is complete.
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4822
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Gjiada,

Holden is defintely bringing out the Compedium of Rhetorius next year.
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3571

I didn't know there was an earlier edition of this by Holden.

You have given me something else to add to my bulging astrological shopping list!
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4673
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would anyone like to add anything on their 'favourite' or most useful fixed stars? Here are some of mine:

Batan Kaitos - 22AR: that brings you to your knees.
Algol - 26TA: Fascination, incapacitation, loosing one's head, overwhelmed by attration or fear (dentists and models), fakes or immitations.
Alcyone (Plejades) -30TA: anything that appears to weep, mourn or produce tears, beauty, grapes, weeping bearch, a source of water.
Alphard - 27LE: The one who stands alone, solo.
Regulus - 30LE: Royalty, sudden rise, sudden fall - the need to secure and stabilize success.
Vindemiatrix - 10LI: A fatal meeting, a table that losses a leg.
Spica - 24LI: Protection, talent, academic and artistic.

I don't appear to be making use of an equal number of stars in the latter half of the zodiac. Confused
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Andrew,

I did type up a personal catalogue of fixed star meanings using notes from Deb, Bernadette Brady, and Diana Rosenberg a couple of years ago. I will see if I can find it and send it to you by PM. I always suggest people check out Deb's articles on the constellations. These are loaded with lots of excellent traditional references and associations. More balanced than Vivian Robson who tends to be very extreme in his asessments of star meanings.

I have become somewhat sceptical of using stars well outside the ecliptic by the zodiacal projection method. I know its what many of the great astrologers did but it seems a crude approach. I tend to only work with stars fairly close to the ecliptic using that technique now. However, that is just my opinion. Fixed star authorities like Diana Rosenberg seem perfectly happy with that technique for all stars. Its also true that this approach sometimes produces some interesting hits such as Princess Diana's Venus on Algol.

Using the fixed stars paran option on solar fire gives you lots more stars either on the angles by themselves or in paran with planets.

In terms of suggestions the biggest gap I see in your list is the stars in the constellation of Scorpius. I dont just mean Antares. Shaula in the tail of the scorpion is one of the brightest stars. This is close by the star Lesath and the two nebula in Scorpio: Aculeus and Aculeus. The ancient Greek astrologers considered this area very difficult. However, the tail of the Scorpion is not visible as far north as Scotland so obviously not in Norway either. Lucky us some might say!

Dschubba in the head of the Scorpion is another a bright star. Its magnitude really increased a few years ago. Its next to the star Acrab (Graffias). The whole area of of 2-3 Sagittarius has quite a malefic reputation and justifiably so. Many serial killers have key points in their chart here. Of course this can all be expressed more positively. I have many of examples of that too. Sharatan or Sheratan in the horn of the Ram also seems to come up a lot for killers or violence. Another point to look out for is Praesaepe in the constellation of Cancer. Not very bright but it appears quite powerful despite that. Perhaps because its so close to the ecliptic. Bright stars like Aldebaran and Pollux close to the ecliptic should be on any shortlist. I have listed Castor too even though its further out than its twin star Pollux.

You will see no reference to stars like Siriuis or Fomalhaut on this list as they are well south of the ecliptic. I would only look at them on the angles in mundo or in paran. Actually, considering your in Norway quite a few stars on lists will never rise at your latitude. Equally , many other stars will be circumpolar all year round from your latitude.

I also do not use Algol using the zodiacal projection method because of its its high latitude. It just isn't anywhere near in real space where the zodiac says it is. Still its worth remembering Pluto can be up to 17 degrees outside the ecliptic and some of the asteroids even more so. I suppose its a question of how far you are willing to stretch a symbolic over a literal view of things. However, using in mundo contacts to the angles or planets Algol can be a very important star.

This article explains the astronomical difficulties with using stars like Algol well outside the ecliptic this way:

http://www.geocities.com/astrologyprincewilliam/princewilliamsvenus.htm

Thus in a particular location Algol could be rising at a zodiacal degree such as 17 Taurus quite far away its projected position on the zodiac of 26 Taurus.

That is another advantage of concentrating on stars close to the ecliptic.

Here are some stars close to the ecliptic I would suggest. They are organised by tropical zodiac sign:

Zodiacal Stars
Position by Tropical zodiac degree 2008 & latitude.

+=North of Ecliptic
- = South of Ecliptic.
* = First magnitude
N=Nebula/Star cluster

Taurus
Messarthim ( 3.11 Taurus) +7.09
Sheratan ( 3.58 Taurus) +8.29
Hamal ( 7.40 Taurus) +9.57

Gemini
Alycone ( Pleiades) +4.03 (00.00 Gemini) N
Prima Hyadum (05.48 Gemini) (Latitude -5.43) N
*Aldebaran ( 9.47 Gemini) -5.28
El Nath ( 22.35 Gemini) +5.23
AL Hecka ((24.47 Gemini) -2.11

Cancer
Propus ( Tejat) ( Latitude -00.53) (3.26 Cancer)
Tejat Posterior ( 05.18 Cancer) ( Latitude -00.49)
Alhena ( latitude -6.44) (09.06 Cancer)
*Castor (20.14 Cancer) Latitude +10.05
*Pollux ( 23.13 Cancer (Latitude +6.41)

Leo
Praesaepe (07 .20 Leo) +0.17 N
*Regulus (29.50 Leo) +00.27

Libra
*Spica ( Libra) -2.03 (23.50 Libra)

Scorpio
Zuben Elgenubi (15.05 Scorpio) +00.19
Zuben Elschemali (19.22 Scorpio) +8.29

Sagittarius
Dschubba ( Isidis) -1.59 ( 2.34 Sagittarius)
Acrab (Graffias), +1.00 ( 3.11 Sagittarius)
*Antares ( 9.46 Sagittarius) -4.34
Lesath/Shaula ( 24.01/24.35 Sagittarius) -13.47 and -14.0
Aculeus -08.50 (25.44 Sagittarius) N
Acumen -11.22 ( 28.45 Sagittarius) N

Capricorn
Facies ( 8.18 Capricorn) -0.44 N
Nunki ( Pelagus) (12.23 Capricorn Lat-3.26
Ascella ( 13.38 Capricorn) (Latitude -7.10)
Terrebelum ( 25. 51 Capricorn) -5.25

Aquarius
Sadalsuud ( Aquarius) 23.24
Deneb Algedi ( Aquarius) 23.33
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4673
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks MarkC!

Johndro had a different way of using the fixed stars, particularly in mundane astrology, and converted their positions into mundane location. There might be done some more research within this field some time in the future.

Pearce has a short (6 pages) but interesting chapter on the fixed stars:
Quote:
The stars of the first magnitude have the greatest power; those of less than the fourth magnitude (except when in a cluster, like the Pleiades) have no appreciable influence.

Is this statement on magnitude true? Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are invisable - does that lessen their effect?

Pearce includes a passage on variable stars, Algol being a star of this category, and irregular or temporary stars like the one observed by Tycho Brahe in the sign of Cassiopaeia in 1572 and the one in Ophiuchus observed by Kepler between 1604-1606. However, there is no information on how the appearance of these irregular stars where interpretated.

Some of the classical interpretations given fixed stars seem ever so violent, but then we might discuss whether the influences of both the planets and fixed stars are modified by living in a more quiet and civilized courner of the world.
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Mark
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Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Andrew,

Quote:
Johndro had a different way of using the fixed stars, particularly in mundane astrology, and converted their positions into mundane location. There might be done some more research within this field some time in the future.

Personally I find Johndro’s approach rather dry. However, I can see how it might be of interest to mathematicians. I cannot really engage with an approach to fixed stars that simply ignores the whole mass of starlore built up over millennia.
Quote:
Pearce has a short (6 pages) but interesting chapter on the fixed stars:

I would be interested to see that. You really are convincing me A.J. Pearce is indispensible in any astrological library! I have yet to spot any other really good writing on fixed stars after Lilly and Morin until the early 20th century. The only major exception I can think of is ''Star Names: Their Lore and Meaning'' by Richard H. Allen (1899). However, that is a 250 year gap. I must be missing out on some fixed star gems somewhere?

Quote:
Is this statement on magnitude true? Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are invisable - does that lessen their effect?

I would agree with this myself. There is no doubt the ‘bright stars', aka the 1st magnitude stars are the starting point in any study of fixed stars. Some astrologers only work with these. There is an astrological consensus these are the most powerful in their influence. Still, astrologers who have worked with the fixed stars such as Vivian Robson, Ebertin, Bernadette Brady or Diana Rosenberg would certainly work with stars up to 3rd/4th magnitude. Personally, I might go as far as 4th magnitude although more commonly 3rd. While I would not generally consider 5th magnitude stars the major exception to this are the star clusters/nebula such as the Pleiades (the seven sisters), Praesaepe (The Beehive), Aculeus/Acumen, and Facies.

As far as I am concerned these points do have a definite effect. Perhaps because the energy of many stars is deeply concentrated. All the examples above are also close the ecliptic which I think adds to their influence.

I think bringing in outer planets to this discussion is like comparing apples and pears. Its true of these only Uranus is just visible to the naked eye (6th magnitude) in perfect viewing conditions! However, these are all followers of the Sun. They therefore have an increased significance for us on earth. While my approach is traditional I do work with outer planets.

Quote:
Pearce includes a passage on variable stars, Algol being a star of this category,

Many stars are actually variable although few as famously or as regularly as Algol. It has occurred me that it might be interesting to compare Algol’s astrological influence with charts during its eclipse by its binary star compared to other times. Traditionally the 'demon star' was it its most malefic when the demon 'blinked'

Quote:
and irregular or temporary stars like the one observed by Tycho Brahe in the sign of Cassiopaeia in 1572 and the one in Ophiuchus observed by Kepler between 1604-1606.However, there is no information on how the appearance of these irregular stars where interpretated.

Ultimately, the major impact of these events combined with the more sophisticated astronomy of Tycho Brahe and Kepler was the end of the cosmological view going back to Aristotle and other classical sources. The classical view had always been that the realm or 'sphere' of the fixed stars was unchanging. This was because the ancient greeks believed the planets and heavens were separated from the earth in a series of celestial spheres revolving around the earth which included the planets and fixed stars. The most elaborate version of this idea was developed by Aristotle who postulated a total of 55 spheres. The fixed stars were the furthest sphere from earth before the realm of Gods, Angels, Prime Mover etc and as they appeared not to change they were seen as closer to the immutable, unchanging divine. Hence in the middle ages many stars became identified with Angels.

Even in Ptolemy’s sophisticated astronomy set out in the Almagest the realm of the fixed stars was regarded as unchanging. The first real challenge to the idea of the immutability of the fixed stars came in 1572 with the appearance of a supernovae in the constellation of Cassiopeia. The supernovae was as bright as Venus at its height. and could be seen in daylight. The supernovae itself faded as a naked eye object 16 months after its first appearance. However, the astronomer-astrologer Tycho Brahe carefully observed the phenomena and wrote a paper about it entitled ‘Stella nova’ or "new star" two years after its first appearance.This event combined with developing understanding of astronomers helped to shatter the classical view that the realm of the fixed stars was immutable. 'Kepler's star' of 1604 reinforced this trend.

Quote:
Some of the classical interpretations given fixed stars seem ever so violent, but then we might discuss whether the influences of both the planets and fixed stars are modified by living in a more quiet and civilized courner of the world.

An excellent point! This is something its all too easy to forget living in the relatively comfortable environment of Europe or North America. For many people living in the classical or medieval era ( or the developing world today?) life was as Thomas Hobbes put it ‘nasty, brutish and short’. Social mobility was also far less common so a more fatalistic attitude to fixed stars was compatible with a more fatalistic world view in general.
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