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Critical Degrees
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:00 am    Post subject: Critical Degrees Reply with quote

I recently had two clients, one with 0 degrees Aries Asc, and now a Sun at the Critical Degree of 21 degrees Leo. I would like some feedback and the benefit of all your experience regarding the critical degrees.

I went through the Astro databank and found those with 0 degreesAries and 21 Leo, either famous, infamous or have violent ends or violence surrounding them.

Can any of you share your observations regarding events with those that have critical degrees in their charts?

Also I cannot find who and where is the original reference for critical degrees, where did the observation first come from, is it truly just from the division of the zodiac into 12 degrees based on the Moons phases?

Thanks for your feedback
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI, I dont use the concept of a critical degree, but if you search the forum, I think you can find some discussion on the topic...

I found

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2566&highlight=critical+degrees

it may be of interest, i hope
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:44 pm    Post subject: Only reference, not much on Critical Degrees Reply with quote

Yes, thank you I saw that, I did do a search and that was the only reference to Critical Degrees and it was not very informative regarding them.
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont remember any traditional source who talks about critical degrees, so I dont think I can help. I am trying to remember if sepharial wrote about them, or if its just my imagination, but I will find out when I get home :-)
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Julie K



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 378
Location: Australia

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:04 am    Post subject: Critical Degrees Reply with quote

Morning Sun,

I will quote from Compendium of Astrology, Rose Lineman and Jan Popelka. P 58
{Critical degrees which stem from the Hindu concept of the 28 Lunar Mansions , sub-divisions of the Zodiac based on the Moon's daily motion.Critical degrees supplement planetary strength and can be the deciding factor as to which of two planets is the more influential.The planet occupying the critical degree is deemed the stronger of the two..}

I hope this helps.

Julie K
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Papretis



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Finland

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:13 am    Post subject: Re: Critical Degrees Reply with quote

Julie K wrote:
I will quote from Compendium of Astrology, Rose Lineman and Jan Popelka. P 58
{Critical degrees which stem from the Hindu concept of the 28 Lunar Mansions , sub-divisions of the Zodiac based on the Moon's daily motion.Critical degrees supplement planetary strength and can be the deciding factor as to which of two planets is the more influential.The planet occupying the critical degree is deemed the stronger of the two..}

Hi Julie and all,

I know some hindu astrology (definitely not all of it) but I'm sorry, I donít understand anything about this. First of all, Indians use 27 lunar mansions, not 28 Ė according to them there used to be 28 lunar mansions in the ancient times but one of them was dropped (probably to make the mansions to fit better with the nine planets scheme). Secondly, the 27 lunar mansions or nakshatras are not a sub-division of the twelve sign zodiac, but an independent co-zodiac. Thirdly, I donít know what critical degrees have to do with this all. According to the discussion that yuzuru referred to, critical degrees are considered to be the last degrees of signs (29+ degrees). The last bounds of signs are usually ruled by malefics and thatís why they are considered somewhat unfortunate in traditional Western astrology.

21 Leo being a critical degree, I know nothing about this but maybe someone could shed some light on it.
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ea



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 55

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi MorningSun et al,

Anthony Louis has described the Critical Degrees in his book 'Horary Astrology Plain and Simple" and mentions that these degrees were in fact based on the Lunar Mansions. These Mansions were, however, not Indian, but Arabian. The Arabian system has 28 Mansions whereas the Indian system has only 27 as Sari mentioned. (The Chinese had also their own system of Lunar Mansions btw).
As far as I understand it the Lunar Mansions is one of the oldest systems around, but the origin is not clear. They were apparently originally used to teach people to locate the most (?) important fixed stars in the heaven. There is a debate going on whether this system can be used with the tropical zodiac or should be used only sidearally since it is based on the fixed stars. There are some astrologers, however, who use them tropically, so the debate goes on - and on, and on... Confused
The practical application of these Critical Degrees is another story. I have the feeling that very few use them, perhaps due to this contovercy about which zodiac to use.

Just my 2 cents.
Erna
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Papretis



Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Finland

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ea wrote:
Anthony Louis has described the Critical Degrees in his book 'Horary Astrology Plain and Simple" and mentions that these degrees were in fact based on the Lunar Mansions. These Mansions were, however, not Indian, but Arabian. The Arabian system has 28 Mansions whereas the Indian system has only 27 as Sari mentioned.

Thanks Erna, this sheds some light on this.
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Found it: Critical Degrees Reply with quote

Thank You all, I was searching for Critical Degrees in all my research, I found it under Mansions of the Moon in Nicholas de Vore's Encyclopedia of Astrology!! A very good description of the... (quoting the following:


BEGIN QUOTE: (from Encyclopedia of Astrology, Nicholas de Vore)

"28 divisions of the Moon's travel thruogh one complete circuit of 360 degrees, each Mansion representing one day's average travel of the Moon (12-51-25.2) or roughly 13 degrees) beginning at 0 degrees Aries.

" In the Hindu system they are called Asterisms, and are measured from the beginning of the Hindu Zodiac." So the Ciritcal degrees are:
All Cardinal Signs : 0 degrees, 13 and 26
Fixed Signs : 9, 21
Mutuable Signs : 4, 17

"Fragemtary interpretations of the Lunar Mansions have come down to us from Arabia, India and China. The precise manner which they were employed has been lost, but it is known that GREAT IMPORTANCE was attached to them.

"Sepharial considers that the entrance of the progressed Moon into a Mansion presaged important changes involving affairs pertaining to that Mansion: but it is probable that they had more to do with the transits of the planets and with the Mansion in which fell the current Lunation and Full Moon. Particular attention was paid to the Mansion in which fell the Lunar Day -- The day of the Full Moon.

"In a later period the cusps were known as Crucial or Critical Degrees, with particular reference to the prognosis of a crisis in the progress of an acute disease; also the days on which the Moon forms inharmonious aspects: 7th, 14th, 21st and 28th days --- are said to be Critical Days. these coincide with the cusps of the 1st, 8th 15th and 22nd mansions.

"Except in Horary questions the Hundu system uses only 27 of these asterisms -- omitting the 22nd. Each of these groups of 9 representing the following period in years, are ruled in this sequence:

South Node: 7, Venus: 20, Sun: 6, Moon: 10, Mars: 7, North Node: 18, Jupiter: 16, Saturn: 19, Mercury: 17. The periods total 120 years, the Hindu idea of normal life span. 120 divided by 9 gives 13-1/3rd years, or the same number of degrees, showing the 1 degree per year unit of progression and the probability that the Mansions were largely a device for use in computing progressed influences. Nevertheless the Hindu would state your birth date in terms of the asterism much as we give it in terms of your Sun Sign.

Another Series of Mansions from an Ancient Chinese source indicates that it was chiefly to determine the requests which one propitiates the gods to grant.
END QUOTE

I typed the entire definition for futue reference to keep on this site.

Now with the importance of the Moon in events and timing, I would think this would be worth watching and researching for actual events and timing! Some of the Astro Databank Zero Degrees Aries, met a violent tragic death. It is an interesting study.

Also I will reply regarding the 29 degrees of the signs, in the following post, and why they are considered difficult.

Thanks All!
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: last 29 degrees Reply with quote

[quote="Papretis"][quote="Julie K"] According to the discussion that yuzuru referred to, critical degrees are considered to be the last degrees of signs (29+ degrees). The last bounds of signs are usually ruled by malefics and thatís why they are considered somewhat unfortunate in traditional Western astrology. quote]

I have not heard that the last terms/bounds were called critical. However you are right that according to the Egyptian Terms/Bounds the last 2 to 6 degrees(varies with each sign) of the signs are ruled by Saturn and Mars and do have a malific connotation.

Thank you all again for steering me into the correct terms to research the Critical Degrees as Mansions of the Moon! A great help!
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Julie K



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 378
Location: Australia

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Crtical Degrees Reply with quote

Morning Sun,

My quote is from a book I gave the name and authors of so the info is not necessarily what I may or may not agree with.The question was asked and I was simply offering it. I have never studied the Hindu theories and concepts.

The last degress of a Sign - 29 degrees are called the Anaretic Degrees. They do seem to respond to activation from transits, S Arcs, SProgs and Eclipses.

I have a M/H and I/C at Anaretic degrees - so I am sensitive to the 29th degree especially the Cardinals. This has been my experience many times over! I am about to travel o/s and my SP Jupiter is @ 29 degrees impacting my 29 degree M/H and I/C and it is to do with family.

I hope this is helpful. Julie K
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ivy said, things must come to a head in the chart before something will happen.

(I've got a horary with those same degrees!)
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:24 am    Post subject: 29 degree Reply with quote

Julie,

No that is all GREAT info! The benefit of this site is to know what works for sure, and what does not!! Your feedback regarding the 29th degress is great and accepted as such!..

I hope you did not think I was slamming your reply, as that is no where near the case! Just thought I'd add to it, for future reference when someone does a search for info it will come up!

Thanks so much, it is all very useful and beneficial info, That is the kind of info when shared with other astrologers that helps us get better and better at our trade which is awesome.

Thanks again,
Morning Sun!!
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Julie K



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 378
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:23 am    Post subject: Critical Degrees Reply with quote

Morning Sun,

I havent checked the Critical degrees out for myself and no I wasnt concerned if another member didnt agree or had something to add.
I have found that book I quoted from to be quite a help.

Julie K
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Tom
Moderator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3438
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure since I've never paid much attention to the so-called "anaretic" degrees, but I think we're talking apples and oranges here. The idea that 29 - 30 degrees of a sign is "critical" or "anaretic" is a modern concept and I'm not sure where it came from. It may be related to the terms (bounds), but since moderns or at least late 19th century and later astrologers didn't use the bounds, I can't see how that could be.

The other set of critical degrees probably does have its origins in Hindu astrology, but isn't' used all that much in Western astrology. I don't recall seeing it in any of the older texts. The Arabs used a set of lunar mansions, too.

In horary a planet in the last degrees of a sign indicates a change of some kind. In natal astrology some authors would grant co-rulership of a house to the ruling planet of the next sign, if 27 or more degrees was on a cusp.

The word "anaretic" seems to come from the word "anareta" or the killing planet. This was used to determine length of life and since hyleg was its opposite, the giver of life, well you get the idea. But how that got to the last degree of a sign is unknown to me.

As late as 1947 the term anaretic degree as it relates to 29 degrees of a sign is not mentioned in Devore's Encyclopedia of Astrology. But he does mention the anareta, the anaretic place, and the anaretic point. These he defines as the killing planet and the degree occupied by that planet.

In 1819 Wilson in his Dictionary of Astrology goes into some detail about the anaretic point, but the fundamental definition is the same as DeVore's.

I think it is safe to conclude, at least until some other evidence is shown, that using the 29 degrees of a sign as something critical and calling it the anaretic degree is just an other modern hijacking of a perfectly good traditional term and distorting it (like peregrine).

Tom
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