skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Monomoiria-The lost essential dignity?
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Traditional (& Ancient) Techniques
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4883
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:34 pm    Post subject: Monomoiria-The lost essential dignity? Reply with quote

Hi,

I have just come across this interesting article by Ema Kurent on the Monomoria. These were the the different planets linked to each degree of the zodiac by hellenistic astrologers. They seem to have been used by the hellenistic astrologers as a supplement to the usual 5 essential dignities. The article shows the Monomoiria in practice in relation to famous nativities.

http://www.geocities.com/arsenicobr/monomoiria.doc

I had noticed these in Dorian Greenbaum's translation of Paulus but the article really helps to flesh out the practical use of the Monomoiria.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
sasha_i



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Bucuresti

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi MarkC,

I have something that might be of interest.
The sources are: some comments made by a later commentator to Paulus found in Marcianus gr. 335 fo. 176r, cap. 237, and Parisinus gr. 2424 fo. 87v-88r, cap.148. (translator of these fragments, Giuseppe Bezza).

The second fragment suggests that the monomoiria are useful because can modify different relations between signs. this imply for example that monomoiria can mitigate the aversion of signs. even the second fragment instructs us to corroborate this chapter with chapter 8, 9 and 10.
In the end of the fragment the commentator mentions that the table of monomoiria is worthwhile only for applying aspects of planets, for the separating aspects being useless.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sasha_i



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Bucuresti

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to add that my above post reffers only to monomoiria calculated according to the first system (, the first degree of each sign is ruled by the sign ruler while the other planets ie. »degree rulers« follow in the descending Chaldean order).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4883
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Sasha,

Thanks for that. I haven't checked this out but I seem to recall there is reference to the Monomoiria in Firmicus too?

Quote:
The sources are: some comments made by a later commentator to Paulus found in Marcianus gr. 335 fo. 176r, cap. 237, and Parisinus gr. 2424 fo. 87v-88r, cap.148. (translator of these fragments, Giuseppe Bezza).


Is this translated into Italian oe English? Where is this translation published?

Quote:
In the end of the fragment the commentator mentions that the table of monomoiria is worthwhile only for applying aspects of planets, for the separating aspects being useless.


That being the case I am tempted to have a look at this for horary as well as natal charts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
sasha_i



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Bucuresti

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is this translated into English or Italian? Where is this translation published?


The original text is in Greek and can be found in the above mentioned manuscripts collections.
What I have is an Italian translation, and yes, the translator is Giuseppe Bezza.
I didn't quote from the Italian text, I was just resuming the contents of the second fragment.
The two Italian translations can be found on a CD called Antologia del pensiero astrologico antico, on Cielo e terra site
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4883
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately I do not understand Italian. Sad

Still, I am sure other members will benefit from this.

Can I ask have you any experience of using this in practical astrology? If so what results have you got from it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
sasha_i



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Bucuresti

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If my memory serves me right, I remember that monomoiria can be used also for rectify a chart (but I have to make some research work to see the astrologer that used monomoiria for this topic), but I think in this case we must calculate them according to the second system.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sasha_i



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Bucuresti

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can I ask have you any experience of using this in practical astrology? If so what results have you got from it?


Sincerely, no.
In fact, like you, I wonder what was the exact use of these monomoiria. The second fragment that I mentioned earlier doesn't mention explicitly the mitigating effect, but I think this is the logical conclusion of the commentator remarks about the table of monomoiria
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sasha_i



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Bucuresti

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the commentator had any sources for his remarks or if he just simply tried to give a logical reason for this table.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1353
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sasha_i wrote:
Quote:
Is this translated into English or Italian? Where is this translation published?

The two Italian translations can be found on a CD called Antologia del pensiero astrologico antico, on Cielo e terra site


If you are mentioning Oliompiodoro comment to Paulus Alexandrinus, it could be found even in "Introduzione all'astrologia" , Mimesis, year 2000, Bezza's Italian translation of Paulus work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4883
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you are mentioning Oliompiodoro comment to Paulus Alexandrinus, it could be found even in "Introduzione all'astrologia" , Mimesis, year 2000, Bezza's Italian translation of Paulus work.


This is available in English too. See: ''Late Classical Astrology: Paulus Alexandrinus & Olympiodorus'', translated by Dorian Gieseler Greenbaum (Arhat publications)

The Monomoiria are laid out in an easy to follow table form in her translation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1353
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="MarkC"]
Quote:


This is available in English too. See: ''Late Classical Astrology: Paulus Alexandrinus & Olympiodorus'', translated by Dorian Gieseler Greenbaum (Arhat publications)

The Monomoiria are laid out in an easy to follow table form in her translation.


You see you have a lot of things in English too Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
sasha_i



Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Bucuresti

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This is available in English too. See: ''Late Classical Astrology: Paulus Alexandrinus & Olympiodorus'', translated by Dorian Gieseler Greenbaum (Arhat publications)

The Monomoiria are laid out in an easy to follow table form in her translation.


Do you have this translation? if yes what do you think about the two above mentioned fragments?

To Gjiada,

Quote:
If you are mentioning Oliompiodoro comment to Paulus Alexandrinus, it could be found even in "Introduzione all'astrologia" , Mimesis, year 2000, Bezza's Italian translation of Paulus work.


Yes this is the translation that I have too on the CD that I mentioned earlier.
Have you read Introduzione all'astrologia? if yes, can you please tell us what's your opinion about the use of monomoiria (you have the advantage of language)?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4883
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Do you have this translation? if yes what do you think about the two above mentioned fragments?


Hi Sasha,

Yes I do have it. I do remember scanning this section on the monomoiria and being very interested in the idea. However, I would need to re-visit those sections before I could offer a really a considered opinion. I will have a look over the weekend and get back on this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1353
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sasha_i wrote:

Yes this is the translation that I have too on the CD that I mentioned earlier.
Have you read Introduzione all'astrologia? if yes, can you please tell us what's your opinion about the use of monomoiria (you have the advantage of language)?


I read the book but I never tried it.
I don't know if the English version is the same (Italian one is full of other texts so I don't understand very well how the book is organized) but in chapter 5 scholium 15 they write "Omit these one (monomoiria of stars)and apply yourself to the 30th chapter (monomoiria of triplicities)"
Do you have the same in English version?
Is it the one given in Bezza CD?

Anyway from this sentence I understand that monomoiria of triplicities is more important than the first method. This is my interpretation, at least.

I gave a look to my (Italian) Liber Hermetis but it seems to me there is nothing about this method. Anyway I was very quick in checking so i could be wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Traditional (& Ancient) Techniques All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated