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Monomoiria-The lost essential dignity?
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Levente Laszlo



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 182
Location: Budapest, Hungary

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, François, first I must admit that I was somewhat hard with this "Chaldean order in the modern parlance", since the early 5th century Macrobius already names (Commentary on Cicero's Dream of Scipio 1.9.2) a "system of the Chaldeans" (Chaldaeorum ratio) with which, he says, Cicero and Archimedes both agree; so it's not exactly a modern label. Cicero's order is of course Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, and Moon, but neither of the two planetary orders reconstructed using Hippolytus' account on Archimedes by Otto Neugebauer (HAMA, p. 468-469) is identical; this somewhat unsubstantiantes Macrobius' claim.

In any case, Cicero's order, which is attested from the first century BCE onwards, is routinely called heptázōnos (ἑπτάζωνος) in astrological texts (e.g., Thrasyllus, Antiochus, Valens, Paul, and Olympiodorus), and not "Chaldean", and the two sequences attested in cuneiform sources, which are Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, Mercury, and Mars (Neo-Babylonian), or Jupiter, Venus, Mercury, Saturn, and Mars (Seleucid), don't conform with the system of the seven zones, nor does the reasoning of the system of terms called "Chaldean" by Ptolemy.

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Does someone already made glossary of those names?

Which names do you mean?
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